Ruiz leaving in Jan....merged threads

[epsomraver]

I haven't been involved in a good ruiz debate for a while and it may suprise you to know I do not think him the devil incarnate. However some of the fiction about him is amaziing. For a player of his reputed ability (the most talented player at the club i think I read somewhere above) I rarely notice him do anything devastatingly breathtaking. He did score two great chipped goals.... and one wonder strike last season off the bench. Other than those isolated events, in all this time i can't remeber him really being a major influence in the game.

In possesion he does not hold the ball rather than punt it, he holds the ball because he generally takes far too long in possesion and gets caught out as a result. I recall Ross playing a number of brilliant long passes to Hugo and ruiz in the penalty area, buit not ruiz to them. He is very poor at tackling but quite good at intercepting passes butr as he gets possesion he is so painfully slow in moving andf deciding what to do with the ball it usually counts for little.

Against watford his lack of effort and shirking of challenges and unwillingness to close down opponents was scandalous.

I have never accepted that he is that taleneted, he does have some ability but he generally keeps it to himself, we effectievly play with 10 men because of his inability to keep up with play.

And ask yourself, if he was really that good and after all everyone said about him and the purpoted brilliant world cup he had, why wasn't he snapped up in the close season? Magath didn't rate him so surely he would have been one of the first out of the door,

If he was really any good for our team we wouldn';t still be having this debate.

Ross is brilliant, he contributed from day one. Hugo has no first touch but his effort is exemplary and he is scoring, LVC is a star, Ruiz is lucky to have them around him.

100% agree with all of this post, written by someone who understands football.

Nose understands football  064.gif 064.gif 064.gif 064.gif

[nose]

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I haven't been involved in a good ruiz debate for a while and it may suprise you to know I do not think him the devil incarnate. However some of the fiction about him is amaziing. For a player of his reputed ability (the most talented player at the club i think I read somewhere above) I rarely notice him do anything devastatingly breathtaking. He did score two great chipped goals.... and one wonder strike last season off the bench. Other than those isolated events, in all this time i can't remeber him really being a major influence in the game.

In possesion he does not hold the ball rather than punt it, he holds the ball because he generally takes far too long in possesion and gets caught out as a result. I recall Ross playing a number of brilliant long passes to Hugo and ruiz in the penalty area, buit not ruiz to them. He is very poor at tackling but quite good at intercepting passes butr as he gets possesion he is so painfully slow in moving andf deciding what to do with the ball it usually counts for little.

Against watford his lack of effort and shirking of challenges and unwillingness to close down opponents was scandalous.

I have never accepted that he is that taleneted, he does have some ability but he generally keeps it to himself, we effectievly play with 10 men because of his inability to keep up with play.

And ask yourself, if he was really that good and after all everyone said about him and the purpoted brilliant world cup he had, why wasn't he snapped up in the close season? Magath didn't rate him so surely he would have been one of the first out of the door,

If he was really any good for our team we wouldn';t still be having this debate.

Ross is brilliant, he contributed from day one. Hugo has no first touch but his effort is exemplary and he is scoring, LVC is a star, Ruiz is lucky to have them around him.

100% agree with all of this post, written by someone who understands football.

Nose understands football  064.gif 064.gif 064.gif 064.gif

Thank you..... I am assuming you are laughing with delight at my brilliance
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Seasons Greetings

[snarks]

the watford comment was absolutely valid, his lack of willingness to challenge for anything in that time was astounding and his lack of presence meant for the 20 minutes he was on we had a passenger. Kit had absolutely no heitation in replacing him...if he was that valuable he could hav etaken off somebody else.

You see what you want to see, and indeed expect to see, but my opinion whilst it differs from yours is just that, an opinion.

Although I do think he was the logical one to take off against watford, it had little to do with his performance, the only player in that game that I wouldn't have taken off after 20 minutes was Betts. If Kit could have made 10 substitutions, he should have done it after 15 minutes of that game.

I seem to recall on here, people were rubbishing Kiraly, Fofana, Parker, Burns, Grimmer, Bod and Staff after the game, and as they all played badly it was fair comment.  Mac and Hugo got away with it as they hardly touched the ball and LVC is everyones favourite at the moment (me included).

We can disagree I don't ever have an issue with that.
I actually don't see what i want to see, I know I have been vocal on this subject but because he is so underwhelming.
The whole team had a very poor night, personally i thought the center backs did OK but were left horribly exposed.

Where Ruiz was of particular note was that right in front of us he shirked three challenges, and took quite a lot of of abuse from people a bit behind me of a sort that i wouldn't have done. The rest tried very hard, but were awful on the day (it happens), I honestly did not feel his heart was in it at all.

As I say I didn't see that, I saw Burn get out manouvered by Deeney frequently, I saw Parker completely overrun and Fofana have a game where his first touch left him exposed.

Ruiz was just there, not good not worse than anyone else IMHO. If I were Kit, I would have still taken him off though. Overall, and this season only, I like what he brings to the team, even though he is the one player who also irritates me more when he gets it wrong, as he should do better.

[nose]

the watford comment was absolutely valid, his lack of willingness to challenge for anything in that time was astounding and his lack of presence meant for the 20 minutes he was on we had a passenger. Kit had absolutely no heitation in replacing him...if he was that valuable he could hav etaken off somebody else.

You see what you want to see, and indeed expect to see, but my opinion whilst it differs from yours is just that, an opinion.

Although I do think he was the logical one to take off against watford, it had little to do with his performance, the only player in that game that I wouldn't have taken off after 20 minutes was Betts. If Kit could have made 10 substitutions, he should have done it after 15 minutes of that game.

I seem to recall on here, people were rubbishing Kiraly, Fofana, Parker, Burns, Grimmer, Bod and Staff after the game, and as they all played badly it was fair comment.  Mac and Hugo got away with it as they hardly touched the ball and LVC is everyones favourite at the moment (me included).

We can disagree I don't ever have an issue with that.
I actually don't see what i want to see, I know I have been vocal on this subject but because he is so underwhelming.
The whole team had a very poor night, personally i thought the center backs did OK but were left horribly exposed.

Where Ruiz was of particular note was that right in front of us he shirked three challenges, and took quite a lot of of abuse from people a bit behind me of a sort that i wouldn't have done. The rest tried very hard, but were awful on the day (it happens), I honestly did not feel his heart was in it at all.

As I say I didn't see that, I saw Burn get out manouvered by Deeney frequently, I saw Parker completely overrun and Fofana have a game where his first touch left him exposed.

Ruiz was just there, not good not worse than anyone else IMHO. If I were Kit, I would have still taken him off though. Overall, and this season only, I like what he brings to the team, even though he is the one player who also irritates me more when he gets it wrong, as he should do better.

Deeney?
He looked good, and when  a player like him plays well in a team that is playing as well as watford did on the night it is hard to defend against them.

I agree about parker and fofana... Parker had been one of the highlits for me so far this season but his last coupkle of games were not quite as good as he is capable of... I suspect that might be age catching up.

[dannyboi-ffc]

I agree with both sides of this fresh ruiz debate.

First of all nose,  I think most of what you said originally was spot on. His overall contribution has been very underwhelming and he is definitely over hyped by some to the point in which it becomes a bit cringing to read it. The last four years has proved he isn't a superstar, he shows glimpses of a special player but so did facundo sava and his mask, in fact sava gave a lot more return in one year than ruiz has given in 4 and that's not including the price tag.

I felt sorry for ruiz when berbatov was here because it was quite clear they couldn't compliment each other's styles and Berba was always coming deep to dictate what his team mates should be doing. As a result ruiz was suffocated and left with no forward options. I was convinced if played the right way he would come good but even now at a lower level and with the team built around him he's still inconsistent and no better than anyone else.

I do like him or at least I want to like him because I see the talent is there somewhere but he is very frustrating and the fact he has failed to adapt to the pace of our game in 4 years suggests he is wasting both his career and our time by staying.  He would be better off in a slower tempo league and we'd be better off with a midfielder or a winger making us able to change the narrow system being played just to cater for him.



I also agree with Tony that you're being very harsh about the Watford game. This is the perfect example of a scapegoat. Ruiz was no worse than the other 10 until he was subbed. This is the type of thing that happened to senderos when we were losing. And ruiz wasn't subbed for being the worst Player,  it was just the only player kit felt he could take off to keep some sort of shape. I personally think Fofana should have come off instead because at least ruiz would've been some sort of link between defence and attack even if he is slow.

I think you do understand football nose but your a tad harsh in some respects. But we're all guilty of doing that as supporters, I'm probably too hard on zverotic.

We're supporters, we're at our best when we're moaning lol

[nose]

I agree with both sides of this fresh ruiz debate.

First of all nose,  I think most of what you said originally was spot on. His overall contribution has been very underwhelming and he is definitely over hyped by some to the point in which it becomes a bit cringing to read it. The last four years has proved he isn't a superstar, he shows glimpses of a special player but so did facundo sava and his mask, in fact sava gave a lot more return in one year than ruiz has given in 4 and that's not including the price tag.

I felt sorry for ruiz when berbatov was here because it was quite clear they couldn't compliment each other's styles and Berba was always coming deep to dictate what his team mates should be doing. As a result ruiz was suffocated and left with no forward options. I was convinced if played the right way he would come good but even now at a lower level and with the team built around him he's still inconsistent and no better than anyone else.

I do like him or at least I want to like him because I see the talent is there somewhere but he is very frustrating and the fact he has failed to adapt to the pace of our game in 4 years suggests he is wasting both his career and our time by staying.  He would be better off in a slower tempo league and we'd be better off with a midfielder or a winger making us able to change the narrow system being played just to cater for him.



I also agree with Tony that you're being very harsh about the Watford game. This is the perfect example of a scapegoat. Ruiz was no worse than the other 10 until he was subbed. This is the type of thing that happened to senderos when we were losing. And ruiz wasn't subbed for being the worst Player,  it was just the only player kit felt he could take off to keep some sort of shape. I personally think Fofana should have come off instead because at least ruiz would've been some sort of link between defence and attack even if he is slow.

I think you do understand football nose but your a tad harsh in some respects. But we're all guilty of doing that as supporters, I'm probably too hard on zverotic.

We're supporters, we're at our best when we're moaning lol

actually I didn't mean to 'scappegoat him' even if that is how it sounds and I do agree the whole team were dreadful.
regarding sendeross, i know he wasn't always an asset and i was a big critic for ages but he won me round because he was so comitted to the cause and gave absolutely everything and in the end I really think we missed him.

[epsomraver]

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I haven't been involved in a good ruiz debate for a while and it may suprise you to know I do not think him the devil incarnate. However some of the fiction about him is amaziing. For a player of his reputed ability (the most talented player at the club i think I read somewhere above) I rarely notice him do anything devastatingly breathtaking. He did score two great chipped goals.... and one wonder strike last season off the bench. Other than those isolated events, in all this time i can't remeber him really being a major influence in the game.

In possesion he does not hold the ball rather than punt it, he holds the ball because he generally takes far too long in possesion and gets caught out as a result. I recall Ross playing a number of brilliant long passes to Hugo and ruiz in the penalty area, buit not ruiz to them. He is very poor at tackling but quite good at intercepting passes butr as he gets possesion he is so painfully slow in moving andf deciding what to do with the ball it usually counts for little.

Against watford his lack of effort and shirking of challenges and unwillingness to close down opponents was scandalous.

I have never accepted that he is that taleneted, he does have some ability but he generally keeps it to himself, we effectievly play with 10 men because of his inability to keep up with play.

And ask yourself, if he was really that good and after all everyone said about him and the purpoted brilliant world cup he had, why wasn't he snapped up in the close season? Magath didn't rate him so surely he would have been one of the first out of the door,

If he was really any good for our team we wouldn';t still be having this debate.

Ross is brilliant, he contributed from day one. Hugo has no first touch but his effort is exemplary and he is scoring, LVC is a star, Ruiz is lucky to have them around him.

100% agree with all of this post, written by someone who understands football.

Nose understands football  064.gif 064.gif 064.gif 064.gif

Thank you..... I am assuming you are laughing with delight at my brilliance
:005: 049:gif :005: :008: :005: :008: :005:
Seasons Greetings

0001.jpeg :merry christmas:

[colinwhite]

I agree with both sides of this fresh ruiz debate.

First of all nose,  I think most of what you said originally was spot on. His overall contribution has been very underwhelming and he is definitely over hyped by some to the point in which it becomes a bit cringing to read it. The last four years has proved he isn't a superstar, he shows glimpses of a special player but so did facundo sava and his mask, in fact sava gave a lot more return in one year than ruiz has given in 4 and that's not including the price tag.

I felt sorry for ruiz when berbatov was here because it was quite clear they couldn't compliment each other's styles and Berba was always coming deep to dictate what his team mates should be doing. As a result ruiz was suffocated and left with no forward options. I was convinced if played the right way he would come good but even now at a lower level and with the team built around him he's still inconsistent and no better than anyone else.

I do like him or at least I want to like him because I see the talent is there somewhere but he is very frustrating and the fact he has failed to adapt to the pace of our game in 4 years suggests he is wasting both his career and our time by staying.  He would be better off in a slower tempo league and we'd be better off with a midfielder or a winger making us able to change the narrow system being played just to cater for him.



I also agree with Tony that you're being very harsh about the Watford game. This is the perfect example of a scapegoat. Ruiz was no worse than the other 10 until he was subbed. This is the type of thing that happened to senderos when we were losing. And ruiz wasn't subbed for being the worst Player,  it was just the only player kit felt he could take off to keep some sort of shape. I personally think Fofana should have come off instead because at least ruiz would've been some sort of link between defence and attack even if he is slow.

I think you do understand football nose but your a tad harsh in some respects. But we're all guilty of doing that as supporters, I'm probably too hard on zverotic.

We're supporters, we're at our best when we're moaning lol

actually I didn't mean to 'scappegoat him' even if that is how it sounds and I do agree the whole team were dreadful.
regarding sendeross, i know he wasn't always an asset and i was a big critic for ages but he won me round because he was so comitted to the cause and gave absolutely everything and in the end I really think we missed him.

There we have the problem in this debate . If you are impressed by people who appear to give their all , then you don't rate Ruiz and get frustrated with his apparent  lack of commitment .But in football we also need players who can keep cool under pressure. I would suggest that this is Ruiz foremost quality , and as a result of it many don't rate him .
We have had  lots of players like senderos  who give their all and are forgiven even though they are
poor players . Ruiz plays with his head and is a very intelligent player. I don't think that you can quantify what he does with statistics , because his coolness is vital in our side with so many young players .
He is frustrating and we can see the potential he has , but we can't just slate him because he doesn't live up to that potential , whilst praising those that we can see are poor , but forgive them as they give their all . Seems a tad unfair to reason in this way don't you think ?

[colinwhite]

... I just can't see it . We wouldn't get anything for him and I think hell stay until the summer and go on a free(which will see a lot more potential takers). There s been a lot of talk on here about us changing our system if he goes . I don't think so . Ruiz takes the pressure off RM , if he went then ross would be the  main man to watch in our side.
Cant see who we could replace him with without spending a lot of money , and Ruiz is loyal to Fulham despite having a less than wonderful time with us . I could be wrong but I can't see him going in january .
Fantastic result  today and Jims commentary and his comments on Helen ( still don't know how this should be pronounced made me chuckle)  .Bring on Bournemouth ! Come on you Lilly whites !

xma2

[fulhamben]

we could replace from within quite easily if you ask me. david or roberts. or even play woody up top and drop ross back.  i hope he stays, but this is not a position i will lose any sleep over. cm or a dm for me is key in this window as our defence is starting to gel together

[colinwhite]

Ben, David is not even in the squad and Roberts gets the odd 2 minutes and is played wide , so it isn't going to happen ,and wouldn't work either ,sorry .

[J.Perkins]

He was a passenger today. If it wasn't for our yellow cards, he would have come off much earlier. We are accommodating him at the moment.

[fulhamben]

Ben, David is not even in the squad and Roberts gets the odd 2 minutes and is played wide , so it isn't going to happen ,and wouldn't work either ,sorry .

roberts replaced ruiz today did he not? and lots of stuff happens in football, we have seen players frozen out and then return.

[fulhamben]

ill also add that i reckon kaca could slot in behind the front 2/1 depending on what ross is up to too

[colinwhite]

Roberts has amazing potential but he isn't ready . Ruiz does a job in ball retention that  many people don't appreciate , Roberts has no idea about positioning and team shape (which is normal for an 18 year old ), so it won't happen . Ruiz also is good in the air and and has a sweet left foot (second goal ) and they don't grow on trees .
Irrespective of Ruizs merits or defects my point is that i think Kit will want to  hang on to him and it will also suit Ruiz to wait until the summer .

[fulhamben]

ive already stated that i want him to stay, but the fact is if he does leave in January, then all those traits you mention will be of no help to us. i love how ruiz recycles the ball, but ill take running football all day long over passing football. barcelona bore me to death with there style of football, but i could watch madrid running at defences all day long. so with that in mind id rather watch patrick get hold of it and take players on every time.

[FPT]

I thought Ruiz was very poor today; and my dad (a Chelsea fan) agreed. The game passed him by. Don't get me wrong, I do like Ruiz, but I think we'd be both better off if we went our separate ways.

[snarks]

The anti Ruiz stuff, I was clearly watching a different game, thought he played very well.

[Luka]

I thought Ruiz was very poor today; and my dad (a Chelsea fan) agreed. The game passed him by. Don't get me wrong, I do like Ruiz, but I think we'd be both better off if we went our separate ways.

Are you kidding me " my dad a Chelsea fan agrees"...Oh well that's it official then he has to go !!.  Grow some and live by your own opinions son.

Here are mine...Ruiz had a good game, put in a proper shift and we won 4-0.
End off.

[andyk]

Was he booed off today? If so, it's no wonder he's running for the exit.