The Official Silly Transfer Thread for January 2017

[westcliff white]

Calm down boys it's only the 6 th of January. We all want early signings but has any club signed players yet ?  The club might just surprise us. If we get a striker in before Blackburn that would show the that even the powers behind the scenes are doing a good job would it not ?

Yes agree

You are correct Colin,but the other side of the coin is you dilly dally like we did in the last window and IMO panic buy a bit with the likes of Jozabed and the Martin loan at last minute,when I believe we had the chance to sign permanent striker..
I say get in while the Iron is hot before the rest do...

Jozabed was not a panic last minute buy. It may not have worked out but SJ wanted him for a while.

As far as I know the Martin deal wasnt a panic buy either, it was delayed as Derby wanted to sign replacements. In fact we wante dit as a permanent deal earlier in the window and wa sonly a loan because of the time remaining. I could be wroing but thats how it was said to me

[toshes mate]

If you want to make a point along the lines of, "most" business happens toward the end of a window, fine, I don't dispute that. Just as "most" clubs don't get promoted; "most" clubs will lose or draw "most" of their games rather than winning them. But things like getting promoted, winning, and signing players early in the window still happen very often nonetheless. Signing players late isn't inevitable, nor is playing a quarter of the season with Matt smith up front, as we likely will. The "reality" is that to achieve anything positive this club needs to perform exceptionally well in the transfer market, just as it does on the pitch, but Currently, as the selling activity I just mentioned and indeed your own statistics show, we are exceptionally bad at this, in terms of timing at least. 

I think you are spot on with this Statto.  During our rise under MAF we were a buying Club with ambition and although FFP has changed some of the nature of the dealings I do believe that Fulham's higher management echelons (above SJ that is) could polish up their strategy when it comes to retaining quality players who have demonstrated a commitment to Fulham but have been sold on - Steve Sidwell and David Stockdale in the Brighton side to name but two examples.   As a Club we have need to have a focus on the business we are in, which is, I assume, to rise to the best football level we can in the professional game because otherwise why not just sell the Craven Cottage site and let the whole thing collapse?  SJ has shown a lot of ability to get players performing at a better level than we may have anticipated on their arrival.    SJ needs to be properly supported within the Club and anticipation of a Martin (or even McCormack) style problem is a reason for having strength in depth.

I think that you have answered your own points.

You cannot compare the rise under MAF with now because of FFP.

The loss of players like Sidwell and Stockdale that many fans would have wanted to keep is not directly down to the senior management but down to the manager. Yes, the senior management choose the wrong manager and the losses were a consequence. Quite a few did not want to lose Burn but that was a consequence of having Jokanovic as manager.

The club thought they had an ambitious deal for an striker in the summer but the selling club pulled out on the last day.

Strangely players are not queuing up to join Fulham.

Strangely Fulham can't force a club to sell or a player to sign or to accept an offer on the day we make one.

And with FFP our budget is severely limited so the club cannot throw money at the problem as in the early days under MAF.

I don't disagree with you but the point I was trying to make is the one called strategy for success rather than fear of failure.  Yes, the buying in the summer was largely successful in spite of many comments in these forums to the contrary.  I am one of those who backed SJ from the start because I understood what he wanted to do, and I don't believe the Club did all it could do for SJ during the last window.  Sure some players will not want to come here but you can suss that pretty darned quickly with the right questions and plan your acquisitions much more carefully.  That is a strategy that has a Plan A, Plan B and Plan C.  I want the Club to back SJ one hundred percent with the only limit being the need to keep within FFP.       

[MJG]

Calm down boys it's only the 6 th of January. We all want early signings but has any club signed players yet ?  The club might just surprise us. If we get a striker in before Blackburn that would show the that even the powers behind the scenes are doing a good job would it not ?

Yes agree

You are correct Colin,but the other side of the coin is you dilly dally like we did in the last window and IMO panic buy a bit with the likes of Jozabed and the Martin loan at last minute,when I believe we had the chance to sign permanent striker..
I say get in while the Iron is hot before the rest do...

Jozabed was not a panic last minute buy. It may not have worked out but SJ wanted him for a while.

As far as I know the Martin deal wasnt a panic buy either, it was delayed as Derby wanted to sign replacements. In fact we wante dit as a permanent deal earlier in the window and wa sonly a loan because of the time remaining. I could be wroing but thats how it was said to me

I said at the time the loan deal was because of paper work issues.... Quicker to do that than a full contract transfer.... But was brushed off as us just being tight again.

[toshes mate]

Calm down boys it's only the 6 th of January. We all want early signings but has any club signed players yet ?  The club might just surprise us. If we get a striker in before Blackburn that would show the that even the powers behind the scenes are doing a good job would it not ?

Yes agree

You are correct Colin,but the other side of the coin is you dilly dally like we did in the last window and IMO panic buy a bit with the likes of Jozabed and the Martin loan at last minute,when I believe we had the chance to sign permanent striker..
I say get in while the Iron is hot before the rest do...

Jozabed was not a panic last minute buy. It may not have worked out but SJ wanted him for a while.

As far as I know the Martin deal wasnt a panic buy either, it was delayed as Derby wanted to sign replacements. In fact we wante dit as a permanent deal earlier in the window and wa sonly a loan because of the time remaining. I could be wroing but thats how it was said to me

I said at the time the loan deal was because of paper work issues.... Quicker to do that than a full contract transfer.... But was brushed off as us just being tight again.

And so if we were prepared to sign Martin permanently in the summer (except for paperwork issues) then presumably we would have some basis for a permanent signing in January and that may explain a little more about Martin's mystery injury.... perhaps?

[westcliff white]

Calm down boys it's only the 6 th of January. We all want early signings but has any club signed players yet ?  The club might just surprise us. If we get a striker in before Blackburn that would show the that even the powers behind the scenes are doing a good job would it not ?

Yes agree

You are correct Colin,but the other side of the coin is you dilly dally like we did in the last window and IMO panic buy a bit with the likes of Jozabed and the Martin loan at last minute,when I believe we had the chance to sign permanent striker..
I say get in while the Iron is hot before the rest do...

Jozabed was not a panic last minute buy. It may not have worked out but SJ wanted him for a while.

As far as I know the Martin deal wasnt a panic buy either, it was delayed as Derby wanted to sign replacements. In fact we wante dit as a permanent deal earlier in the window and wa sonly a loan because of the time remaining. I could be wroing but thats how it was said to me

I said at the time the loan deal was because of paper work issues.... Quicker to do that than a full contract transfer.... But was brushed off as us just being tight again.

And so if we were prepared to sign Martin permanently in the summer (except for paperwork issues) then presumably we would have some basis for a permanent signing in January and that may explain a little more about Martin's mystery injury.... perhaps?

Again as I was told, w ehave an option to pay the balance of the 9 million either in Jan or June, contractual terms are agreed.

[FulhamStu]

Have we been caught out even more than we think re the Chris Martin debacle ?   If as has been said many times before this latest episode that the permanent deal to sign him just a matter of time, Fulham would only be looking for a backup and planned to invest the main striker budget to Martins acquisition.  Now his loan let alone Permanent signing is in question we are behind the 8 ball in our identification of a number 1 striker.  It has been said that Martin may be reacting to Fulham having changed their minds, i.e. It's Fulham who now only want to maintain the loan on not sign him permanently.

Talk about a soap opera.

Anyway, at the end of the day we need a striker capable of leading the line, we know this is not Matt Smith, so one can see that recruiting a loan as our only real option was very poor, even though the summer transfer dealings were good in many ways, this is now costing us.  Any new player could well need time to integrate, meanwhile we continue to drop points and let see the possibility of the playoffs get less and less.

Siggurdson would also appear to be less than we hoped for as with Button and Jozabed a total disaster.

This shows that even with a pretty good transfer window as it was last time out, there was still a lot we got wrong.  It's easy in hindsite and I know its perfectly normal to not get all transfers right.  The problem is, a striker was the most bleeding obvious area we needed to strengthen and what has now happened means we got this horribly wrong.  Lessons need to be learned, a lot has improved and this season is a positive experience but to be in the top 3 Fulham have to do better.

[MJG]

Have we been caught out even more than we think re the Chris Martin debacle ?   If as has been said many times before this latest episode that the permanent deal to sign him just a matter of time, Fulham would only be looking for a backup and planned to invest the main striker budget to Martins acquisition.  Now his loan let alone Permanent signing is in question we are behind the 8 ball in our identification of a number 1 striker.  It has been said that Martin may be reacting to Fulham having changed their minds, i.e. It's Fulham who now only want to maintain the loan on not sign him permanently.

Talk about a soap opera.

Anyway, at the end of the day we need a striker capable of leading the line, we know this is not Matt Smith, so one can see that recruiting a loan as our only real option was very poor, even though the summer transfer dealings were good in many ways, this is now costing us.  Any new player could well need time to integrate, meanwhile we continue to drop points and let see the possibility of the playoffs get less and less.

Siggurdson would also appear to be less than we hoped for as with Button and Jozabed a total disaster.

This shows that even with a pretty good transfer window as it was last time out, there was still a lot we got wrong.  It's easy in hindsite and I know its perfectly normal to not get all transfers right.  The problem is, a striker was the most bleeding obvious area we needed to strengthen and what has now happened means we got this horribly wrong.  Lessons need to be learned, a lot has improved and this season is a positive experience but to be in the top 3 Fulham have to do better.

When you sign 14 players not all are going to work out.
Only one of those 14 could be said to not be involved in the squad (Jozabad)
Another is Martin and one other who could say has not worked is Kebano. The rest are pretty much Matchday squad players at least. Not a bad hit rate at all.

[Apprentice to the Maestro]

If you want to make a point along the lines of, "most" business happens toward the end of a window, fine, I don't dispute that. Just as "most" clubs don't get promoted; "most" clubs will lose or draw "most" of their games rather than winning them. But things like getting promoted, winning, and signing players early in the window still happen very often nonetheless. Signing players late isn't inevitable, nor is playing a quarter of the season with Matt smith up front, as we likely will. The "reality" is that to achieve anything positive this club needs to perform exceptionally well in the transfer market, just as it does on the pitch, but Currently, as the selling activity I just mentioned and indeed your own statistics show, we are exceptionally bad at this, in terms of timing at least. 

I think you are spot on with this Statto.  During our rise under MAF we were a buying Club with ambition and although FFP has changed some of the nature of the dealings I do believe that Fulham's higher management echelons (above SJ that is) could polish up their strategy when it comes to retaining quality players who have demonstrated a commitment to Fulham but have been sold on - Steve Sidwell and David Stockdale in the Brighton side to name but two examples.   As a Club we have need to have a focus on the business we are in, which is, I assume, to rise to the best football level we can in the professional game because otherwise why not just sell the Craven Cottage site and let the whole thing collapse?  SJ has shown a lot of ability to get players performing at a better level than we may have anticipated on their arrival.    SJ needs to be properly supported within the Club and anticipation of a Martin (or even McCormack) style problem is a reason for having strength in depth.

I think that you have answered your own points.

You cannot compare the rise under MAF with now because of FFP.

The loss of players like Sidwell and Stockdale that many fans would have wanted to keep is not directly down to the senior management but down to the manager. Yes, the senior management choose the wrong manager and the losses were a consequence. Quite a few did not want to lose Burn but that was a consequence of having Jokanovic as manager.

The club thought they had an ambitious deal for an striker in the summer but the selling club pulled out on the last day.

Strangely players are not queuing up to join Fulham.

Strangely Fulham can't force a club to sell or a player to sign or to accept an offer on the day we make one.

And with FFP our budget is severely limited so the club cannot throw money at the problem as in the early days under MAF.

I don't disagree with you but the point I was trying to make is the one called strategy for success rather than fear of failure.  Yes, the buying in the summer was largely successful in spite of many comments in these forums to the contrary.  I am one of those who backed SJ from the start because I understood what he wanted to do, and I don't believe the Club did all it could do for SJ during the last window.  Sure some players will not want to come here but you can suss that pretty darned quickly with the right questions and plan your acquisitions much more carefully.  That is a strategy that has a Plan A, Plan B and Plan C.  I want the Club to back SJ one hundred percent with the only limit being the need to keep within FFP.       

I agree.

I am sure that various structures involving Directors of Football, statistical analysts and coaches can work but my suspicion is that they are going to fail more often than not.

If you need a DoF and analyst to be given as much the same weight as the manager in choosing players to moderate his choices then you have the wrong manager, either a mad one like Magath or an inexperienced one like Symons.

I am much more confident with a good manager in charge Jokanovic that our transfer policy will be more focussed and our selections more successful (but I still expect, like most other transfers to other clubs, the deals to be completed late in the window).

[MJG]

If you want to make a point along the lines of, "most" business happens toward the end of a window, fine, I don't dispute that. Just as "most" clubs don't get promoted; "most" clubs will lose or draw "most" of their games rather than winning them. But things like getting promoted, winning, and signing players early in the window still happen very often nonetheless. Signing players late isn't inevitable, nor is playing a quarter of the season with Matt smith up front, as we likely will. The "reality" is that to achieve anything positive this club needs to perform exceptionally well in the transfer market, just as it does on the pitch, but Currently, as the selling activity I just mentioned and indeed your own statistics show, we are exceptionally bad at this, in terms of timing at least. 

I think you are spot on with this Statto.  During our rise under MAF we were a buying Club with ambition and although FFP has changed some of the nature of the dealings I do believe that Fulham's higher management echelons (above SJ that is) could polish up their strategy when it comes to retaining quality players who have demonstrated a commitment to Fulham but have been sold on - Steve Sidwell and David Stockdale in the Brighton side to name but two examples.   As a Club we have need to have a focus on the business we are in, which is, I assume, to rise to the best football level we can in the professional game because otherwise why not just sell the Craven Cottage site and let the whole thing collapse?  SJ has shown a lot of ability to get players performing at a better level than we may have anticipated on their arrival.    SJ needs to be properly supported within the Club and anticipation of a Martin (or even McCormack) style problem is a reason for having strength in depth.

I think that you have answered your own points.

You cannot compare the rise under MAF with now because of FFP.

The loss of players like Sidwell and Stockdale that many fans would have wanted to keep is not directly down to the senior management but down to the manager. Yes, the senior management choose the wrong manager and the losses were a consequence. Quite a few did not want to lose Burn but that was a consequence of having Jokanovic as manager.

The club thought they had an ambitious deal for an striker in the summer but the selling club pulled out on the last day.

Strangely players are not queuing up to join Fulham.

Strangely Fulham can't force a club to sell or a player to sign or to accept an offer on the day we make one.

And with FFP our budget is severely limited so the club cannot throw money at the problem as in the early days under MAF.

I don't disagree with you but the point I was trying to make is the one called strategy for success rather than fear of failure.  Yes, the buying in the summer was largely successful in spite of many comments in these forums to the contrary.  I am one of those who backed SJ from the start because I understood what he wanted to do, and I don't believe the Club did all it could do for SJ during the last window.  Sure some players will not want to come here but you can suss that pretty darned quickly with the right questions and plan your acquisitions much more carefully.  That is a strategy that has a Plan A, Plan B and Plan C.  I want the Club to back SJ one hundred percent with the only limit being the need to keep within FFP.       

I agree.

I am sure that various structures involving Directors of Football, statistical analysts and coaches can work but my suspicion is that they are going to fail more often than not.

If you need a DoF and analyst to be given as much the same weight as the manager in choosing players to moderate his choices then you have the wrong manager, either a mad one like Magath or an inexperienced one like Symons.

I am much more confident with a good manager in charge Jokanovic that our transfer policy will be more focussed and our selections more successful (but I still expect, like most other transfers to other clubs, the deals to be completed late in the window).

Jozabad is excatly that really, a managers choice. So from my pov and knowledge the one player we backed our manager with has not worked.

[Apprentice to the Maestro]

I do not quite understand the abuse of Jozabed. He seems to me to have a high level of skill and some creativity. The main problem he has, I would suggest, is that his natural role is too like that of Cairney and who in this league let alone the club would oust Cairney from the team.

Similarly with Tunnicliffe. I am more than happy to have him a backup in midfield.

[Apprentice to the Maestro]

If you want to make a point along the lines of, "most" business happens toward the end of a window, fine, I don't dispute that. Just as "most" clubs don't get promoted; "most" clubs will lose or draw "most" of their games rather than winning them. But things like getting promoted, winning, and signing players early in the window still happen very often nonetheless. Signing players late isn't inevitable, nor is playing a quarter of the season with Matt smith up front, as we likely will. The "reality" is that to achieve anything positive this club needs to perform exceptionally well in the transfer market, just as it does on the pitch, but Currently, as the selling activity I just mentioned and indeed your own statistics show, we are exceptionally bad at this, in terms of timing at least. 

I think you are spot on with this Statto.  During our rise under MAF we were a buying Club with ambition and although FFP has changed some of the nature of the dealings I do believe that Fulham's higher management echelons (above SJ that is) could polish up their strategy when it comes to retaining quality players who have demonstrated a commitment to Fulham but have been sold on - Steve Sidwell and David Stockdale in the Brighton side to name but two examples.   As a Club we have need to have a focus on the business we are in, which is, I assume, to rise to the best football level we can in the professional game because otherwise why not just sell the Craven Cottage site and let the whole thing collapse?  SJ has shown a lot of ability to get players performing at a better level than we may have anticipated on their arrival.    SJ needs to be properly supported within the Club and anticipation of a Martin (or even McCormack) style problem is a reason for having strength in depth.

I think that you have answered your own points.

You cannot compare the rise under MAF with now because of FFP.

The loss of players like Sidwell and Stockdale that many fans would have wanted to keep is not directly down to the senior management but down to the manager. Yes, the senior management choose the wrong manager and the losses were a consequence. Quite a few did not want to lose Burn but that was a consequence of having Jokanovic as manager.

The club thought they had an ambitious deal for an striker in the summer but the selling club pulled out on the last day.

Strangely players are not queuing up to join Fulham.

Strangely Fulham can't force a club to sell or a player to sign or to accept an offer on the day we make one.

And with FFP our budget is severely limited so the club cannot throw money at the problem as in the early days under MAF.

I don't disagree with you but the point I was trying to make is the one called strategy for success rather than fear of failure.  Yes, the buying in the summer was largely successful in spite of many comments in these forums to the contrary.  I am one of those who backed SJ from the start because I understood what he wanted to do, and I don't believe the Club did all it could do for SJ during the last window.  Sure some players will not want to come here but you can suss that pretty darned quickly with the right questions and plan your acquisitions much more carefully.  That is a strategy that has a Plan A, Plan B and Plan C.  I want the Club to back SJ one hundred percent with the only limit being the need to keep within FFP.       

I agree.

I am sure that various structures involving Directors of Football, statistical analysts and coaches can work but my suspicion is that they are going to fail more often than not.

If you need a DoF and analyst to be given as much the same weight as the manager in choosing players to moderate his choices then you have the wrong manager, either a mad one like Magath or an inexperienced one like Symons.

I am much more confident with a good manager in charge Jokanovic that our transfer policy will be more focussed and our selections more successful (but I still expect, like most other transfers to other clubs, the deals to be completed late in the window).

Jozabad is excatly that really, a managers choice. So from my pov and knowledge the one player we backed our manager with has not worked.

Well I admit I have no more knowledge than the average fan about how transfer targets were selected and who chose whom.

If our summer business was mainly carried out by DoF Rigg and stats man Kline then of the other 13 (was it?) purchases how many would we consider a success? 50%?

I think we should give Jokanovic a few more selections before we judge him. One player is a rather small sample.

[MJG]

I do not quite understand the abuse of Jozabed. He seems to me to have a high level of skill and some creativity. The main problem he has, I would suggest, is that his natural role is too like that of Cairney and who in this league let alone the club would oust Cairney from the team.

Similarly with Tunnicliffe. I am more than happy to have him a backup in midfield.

Been told the change in formation from 4411 to 433/4141 has meant there is no place for him.
i agree he has a bag of skill but Championship maybe not the place for him.

[Carborundum]

I do not quite understand the abuse of Jozabed. He seems to me to have a high level of skill and some creativity. The main problem he has, I would suggest, is that his natural role is too like that of Cairney and who in this league let alone the club would oust Cairney from the team.

Similarly with Tunnicliffe. I am more than happy to have him a backup in midfield.

Been told the change in formation from 4411 to 433/4141 has meant there is no place for him.
i agree he has a bag of skill but Championship maybe not the place for him.

That's probably the best rationale to preserve his transfer value and save people's blushes.  But the main problem is that he can't defend effectively and needs basic schooling in what to do along with strength conditioning work.  Velvet with the ball, powderpuff without it.  YouTube has a good goal he scored against Real Madrid, but the trouble was his team lost 10-2.

As you say, the Championship maybe not the place for him. 

[Apprentice to the Maestro]

I do not quite understand the abuse of Jozabed. He seems to me to have a high level of skill and some creativity. The main problem he has, I would suggest, is that his natural role is too like that of Cairney and who in this league let alone the club would oust Cairney from the team.

Similarly with Tunnicliffe. I am more than happy to have him a backup in midfield.

Been told the change in formation from 4411 to 433/4141 has meant there is no place for him.
i agree he has a bag of skill but Championship maybe not the place for him.

That's probably the best rationale to preserve his transfer value and save people's blushes.  But the main problem is that he can't defend effectively and needs basic schooling in what to do along with strength conditioning work.  Velvet with the ball, powderpuff without it.  YouTube has a good goal he scored against Real Madrid, but the trouble was his team lost 10-2.

As you say, the Championship maybe not the place for him. 

We might agree that he looks a bit lightweight and would need to improve his defensive work but he seems to be being judged on 288 minutes of play, the equivalent of three games, several as bit parts late in the game and some away from home that many will have not seen in a league new to him.

I am prepared to give him a bit more of a chance.

[FulhamStu]

Have we been caught out even more than we think re the Chris Martin debacle ?   If as has been said many times before this latest episode that the permanent deal to sign him just a matter of time, Fulham would only be looking for a backup and planned to invest the main striker budget to Martins acquisition.  Now his loan let alone Permanent signing is in question we are behind the 8 ball in our identification of a number 1 striker.  It has been said that Martin may be reacting to Fulham having changed their minds, i.e. It's Fulham who now only want to maintain the loan on not sign him permanently.

Talk about a soap opera.

Anyway, at the end of the day we need a striker capable of leading the line, we know this is not Matt Smith, so one can see that recruiting a loan as our only real option was very poor, even though the summer transfer dealings were good in many ways, this is now costing us.  Any new player could well need time to integrate, meanwhile we continue to drop points and let see the possibility of the playoffs get less and less.

Siggurdson would also appear to be less than we hoped for as with Button and Jozabed a total disaster.

This shows that even with a pretty good transfer window as it was last time out, there was still a lot we got wrong.  It's easy in hindsite and I know its perfectly normal to not get all transfers right.  The problem is, a striker was the most bleeding obvious area we needed to strengthen and what has now happened means we got this horribly wrong.  Lessons need to be learned, a lot has improved and this season is a positive experience but to be in the top 3 Fulham have to do better.

When you sign 14 players not all are going to work out.
Only one of those 14 could be said to not be involved in the squad (Jozabad)
Another is Martin and one other who could say has not worked is Kebano. The rest are pretty much Matchday squad players at least. Not a bad hit rate at all.

I agree it was a good window, however whilst I was happy with Martin, and yes, we left it very late and it was a loan only.  My point is that it was our no1 priority having lost
Mac and Dembele and yes we should have signed more than one striker but now Martin is behaving so badly we are left completely exposed with no adequate striker.   Did we really need all the other players, probably not however McDonald, Johansen and Kalas outstanding signings, Ayite and Aluko very good signings, the rest can be debated but Striker were the main requirement and we messed that up.

[Keynsham]

I don't know.

Around this time last season Jamie O'Hara was one of our top performers.

I like to think that things have improved significantly since then.

[FulhamStu]

If Martin had signed, we then signed a good backup (Nugent, Boogle) I would be quite happy.  It's Martins apparent U turn, OR our U turn NOT to sign him permenantly that has now left us in the lurch and one that could scupper a potentially excellent season.   Loads of good fullbacks, loads on decent Central Defenders, ever more outstanding midfield players, currently Matt Smith, Woodrow and a kid up front.  It's stating the obvious but appears to me not knowing the real details to be poor management by those responsible for recruitment.  Khan needs to get involved and financially support Slavisa to plug the gap.  I have absolutely no confidence that he will as I think he just delegates (Macintosh?) and those now in charge don't have the balls.

[Apprentice to the Maestro]

Have we been caught out even more than we think re the Chris Martin debacle ?   If as has been said many times before this latest episode that the permanent deal to sign him just a matter of time, Fulham would only be looking for a backup and planned to invest the main striker budget to Martins acquisition.  Now his loan let alone Permanent signing is in question we are behind the 8 ball in our identification of a number 1 striker.  It has been said that Martin may be reacting to Fulham having changed their minds, i.e. It's Fulham who now only want to maintain the loan on not sign him permanently.

Talk about a soap opera.

Anyway, at the end of the day we need a striker capable of leading the line, we know this is not Matt Smith, so one can see that recruiting a loan as our only real option was very poor, even though the summer transfer dealings were good in many ways, this is now costing us.  Any new player could well need time to integrate, meanwhile we continue to drop points and let see the possibility of the playoffs get less and less.

Siggurdson would also appear to be less than we hoped for as with Button and Jozabed a total disaster.

This shows that even with a pretty good transfer window as it was last time out, there was still a lot we got wrong.  It's easy in hindsite and I know its perfectly normal to not get all transfers right.  The problem is, a striker was the most bleeding obvious area we needed to strengthen and what has now happened means we got this horribly wrong.  Lessons need to be learned, a lot has improved and this season is a positive experience but to be in the top 3 Fulham have to do better.

When you sign 14 players not all are going to work out.
Only one of those 14 could be said to not be involved in the squad (Jozabad)
Another is Martin and one other who could say has not worked is Kebano. The rest are pretty much Matchday squad players at least. Not a bad hit rate at all.

I agree it was a good window, however whilst I was happy with Martin, and yes, we left it very late and it was a loan only.  My point is that it was our no1 priority having lost
Mac and Dembele and yes we should have signed more than one striker but now Martin is behaving so badly we are left completely exposed with no adequate striker.   Did we really need all the other players, probably not however McDonald, Johansen and Kalas outstanding signings, Ayite and Aluko very good signings, the rest can be debated but Striker were the main requirement and we messed that up.

Of course this is true in some sense.

But unless we have some inside knowledge about how and why we messed up where does it get us?

What evidence do we have that getting in strikers was not our main priority?

What do we know about what bids were made and why they fell though such as the one on the last day that seemed to fail because the sellers could not get their replacement like in a house buying chain?

And what do posters want done about it? Well Rigg has gone. Maybe we should blame him. McCormack has not gone despite the fact that if 10% of the accusations against him were true then that would have been enough to sack him so maybe he isn't the problem. So should we replace Khan as some suggested? Oh, we can't as he is the owner and we don't know any billionaires.

[toshes mate]

If you want to make a point along the lines of, "most" business happens toward the end of a window, fine, I don't dispute that. Just as "most" clubs don't get promoted; "most" clubs will lose or draw "most" of their games rather than winning them. But things like getting promoted, winning, and signing players early in the window still happen very often nonetheless. Signing players late isn't inevitable, nor is playing a quarter of the season with Matt smith up front, as we likely will. The "reality" is that to achieve anything positive this club needs to perform exceptionally well in the transfer market, just as it does on the pitch, but Currently, as the selling activity I just mentioned and indeed your own statistics show, we are exceptionally bad at this, in terms of timing at least. 

I think you are spot on with this Statto.  During our rise under MAF we were a buying Club with ambition and although FFP has changed some of the nature of the dealings I do believe that Fulham's higher management echelons (above SJ that is) could polish up their strategy when it comes to retaining quality players who have demonstrated a commitment to Fulham but have been sold on - Steve Sidwell and David Stockdale in the Brighton side to name but two examples.   As a Club we have need to have a focus on the business we are in, which is, I assume, to rise to the best football level we can in the professional game because otherwise why not just sell the Craven Cottage site and let the whole thing collapse?  SJ has shown a lot of ability to get players performing at a better level than we may have anticipated on their arrival.    SJ needs to be properly supported within the Club and anticipation of a Martin (or even McCormack) style problem is a reason for having strength in depth.

I think that you have answered your own points.

You cannot compare the rise under MAF with now because of FFP.

The loss of players like Sidwell and Stockdale that many fans would have wanted to keep is not directly down to the senior management but down to the manager. Yes, the senior management choose the wrong manager and the losses were a consequence. Quite a few did not want to lose Burn but that was a consequence of having Jokanovic as manager.

The club thought they had an ambitious deal for an striker in the summer but the selling club pulled out on the last day.

Strangely players are not queuing up to join Fulham.

Strangely Fulham can't force a club to sell or a player to sign or to accept an offer on the day we make one.

And with FFP our budget is severely limited so the club cannot throw money at the problem as in the early days under MAF.

I don't disagree with you but the point I was trying to make is the one called strategy for success rather than fear of failure.  Yes, the buying in the summer was largely successful in spite of many comments in these forums to the contrary.  I am one of those who backed SJ from the start because I understood what he wanted to do, and I don't believe the Club did all it could do for SJ during the last window.  Sure some players will not want to come here but you can suss that pretty darned quickly with the right questions and plan your acquisitions much more carefully.  That is a strategy that has a Plan A, Plan B and Plan C.  I want the Club to back SJ one hundred percent with the only limit being the need to keep within FFP.       

I agree.

I am sure that various structures involving Directors of Football, statistical analysts and coaches can work but my suspicion is that they are going to fail more often than not.

If you need a DoF and analyst to be given as much the same weight as the manager in choosing players to moderate his choices then you have the wrong manager, either a mad one like Magath or an inexperienced one like Symons.

I am much more confident with a good manager in charge Jokanovic that our transfer policy will be more focussed and our selections more successful (but I still expect, like most other transfers to other clubs, the deals to be completed late in the window).

Jozabad is excatly that really, a managers choice. So from my pov and knowledge the one player we backed our manager with has not worked.

I, for one, haven't seen enough of Jozabed to make a judgement that 'he is a wrong one' or 'a mistake' but I do see SJ trying to arrive at a settled first team i.e. one that selects itself.  Jozabed would have to fight for his place as has Matt Smith and many others.    The real problem is Martin and how we arrived, as a Club, at the point where we have an unsettled player for reasons that seem to be down to an impression given to Martin in August which the Club is now reneging on.  I am assuming at this point that SJ wanted him signed permanently in August too, and hasn't changed his mind.   If that is at all true then the Club really needs to understand the nature of its business one hell of a lot better than it is doing. 

[MJG]

Two thirds of our spending in the summer window went on 3 players who now can't get in the team. And our best 11 now features players at CB (currently both of them), RB, attacking midfield and up front (and if some had their way, GK) who we had last season when we finished 20th. So whilst I do agree that the summer ins/outs were an "overall success" and an improvement, let's not get carried away. Our improvement is clearly more attributable to the manager than the players at his disposal

I'm also still not accepting as gospel like some seem to that jozabed was jokanovic's choice. But that's another debate for another day.

As to the speed of our business generally versus our rivals', show me which of the clubs from reading down to Birmingham sold their best two strikers in the summer and still hasn't got a replacement. Then maybe we can have a worthwhile comparison of our respective progress in that department this month

let's be frank,  Jozabed being a SJ player doesn't fit the stance on stat man being the center of all our ills.
I've been told he was his man based on how SJ thought he would set up. We have changed now and that along with his issues adapting to being in England is why he's not playing.
Now you will say why spend the money and not play him, well that happens enough times where signings just don't work out.