Team in for tonight / Matchday thread Porto

[FFC1987]

I think we all know with Kamara that he needs some form to get the goals but his pace will cause most teams problems. Could be a big year for him and Mitro.

[Statto]

I wouldn't infer much from a single, relatively early pre-season friendly, but equally, some are going way OTT about how good Porto are. In economic terms they're someone between a top 2 Championship side and a bottom 3 PL side. So comparable to Norwich.

Last season in the Champions League Porto were w5 d1 l0 in the Group Stage facing Schalke, Galatasaray and Locomotive Moscow and beat Roma in the round of 16 before losing to Liverpool, the eventual Champions.

Not bad for a Championship side or PL relegation side.

But again, to translate that to the English leagues it's like beating Brighton, Villa and Cardiff, very narrowly scraping past West Ham then getting spanked 6-1 by Liverpool. So no, not bad, but nothing special.

[KJS]

I wouldn't infer much from a single, relatively early pre-season friendly, but equally, some are going way OTT about how good Porto are. In economic terms they're someone between a top 2 Championship side and a bottom 3 PL side. So comparable to Norwich.

Last season in the Champions League Porto were w5 d1 l0 in the Group Stage facing Schalke, Galatasaray and Locomotive Moscow and beat Roma in the round of 16 before losing to Liverpool, the eventual Champions.

Not bad for a Championship side or PL relegation side.

But again, to translate that to the English leagues it's like beating Brighton, Villa and Cardiff, very narrowly scraping past West Ham then getting spanked 6-1 by Liverpool. So no, not bad, but nothing special.

It was a pre-season friendly get over it!

[Woolly Mammoth]

I prefer to play a team like Porto, as opposed to say Barnet or Cambridge Utd. The management and players will learn far more and learn far quicker from decent teams and from the defeats also.
It is clear we need additions, and especially in defence providing they are better than we already have.
I also thought Matt 0'Reilly did reasonably well when he came on. He certainly held his own.

[Tabby]

Not too sure about O'Reilly- just thought he really lacked energy but as said above, their MF press was constant and meant our midfield were often facing our own goal when picking up the ball.

I looked at his performance comparing it to Kmac, where I think he did much better in recieving the ball under pressure. An 18 year old doing a better job than one of our key players of the promotion season is pretty good.

[Sting of the North]

It was a pre-season friendly get over it!

Now I'm a bit curious. What do you want Statto to get over exactly? Is it the fact that Porto economically compares to a team like Norwich you want him to get over, or do you just want him to stop trying to put things into a reasonable perspective?

[Apprentice to the Maestro]

I wouldn't infer much from a single, relatively early pre-season friendly, but equally, some are going way OTT about how good Porto are. In economic terms they're someone between a top 2 Championship side and a bottom 3 PL side. So comparable to Norwich.

Last season in the Champions League Porto were w5 d1 l0 in the Group Stage facing Schalke, Galatasaray and Locomotive Moscow and beat Roma in the round of 16 before losing to Liverpool, the eventual Champions.

Not bad for a Championship side or PL relegation side.

You are correct in that they had a good year in the Champions League. Doesn't really contradict what Statto wrote though, does it?

To most with an interest in football, how a team performs on the pitch is what counts, not how much money they turn over.

To compare Porto who have finished in the top three in their league for each of the last ten years and have won four European trophies with Norwich (no European trophies) or PL relegation clubs like Fulham or Championship promotion clubs is to seriously underestimating Porto's quality.

[Statto]

I wouldn't infer much from a single, relatively early pre-season friendly, but equally, some are going way OTT about how good Porto are. In economic terms they're someone between a top 2 Championship side and a bottom 3 PL side. So comparable to Norwich.

Last season in the Champions League Porto were w5 d1 l0 in the Group Stage facing Schalke, Galatasaray and Locomotive Moscow and beat Roma in the round of 16 before losing to Liverpool, the eventual Champions.

Not bad for a Championship side or PL relegation side.

You are correct in that they had a good year in the Champions League. Doesn't really contradict what Statto wrote though, does it?

To most with an interest in football, how a team performs on the pitch is what counts, not how much money they turn over.

To compare Porto who have finished in the top three in their league for each of the last ten years and have won four European trophies with Norwich (no European trophies) or PL relegation clubs like Fulham or Championship promotion clubs is to seriously underestimating Porto's quality.

Out of interest, what do you think would have been a reasonable expectation if we'd been playing FC Flora? As I'm sure you're aware, FC Flora, commonly known as Flora Tallinn, are the most decorated club in Estonian football, with a record 11 Meistriliiga titles, seven Estonian Cups and a record nine Estonian Supercups. Given we've never won a major trophy, surely we could not be expected to compete with such a successful club.

[Apprentice to the Maestro]

I wouldn't infer much from a single, relatively early pre-season friendly, but equally, some are going way OTT about how good Porto are. In economic terms they're someone between a top 2 Championship side and a bottom 3 PL side. So comparable to Norwich.

Last season in the Champions League Porto were w5 d1 l0 in the Group Stage facing Schalke, Galatasaray and Locomotive Moscow and beat Roma in the round of 16 before losing to Liverpool, the eventual Champions.

Not bad for a Championship side or PL relegation side.

But again, to translate that to the English leagues it's like beating Brighton, Villa and Cardiff, very narrowly scraping past West Ham then getting spanked 6-1 by Liverpool. So no, not bad, but nothing special.

Most on here are sensibly not inferring much from a pre-season game.

But to repeatedly imply that Porto, in the top three of their league for the last ten years and with four European trophies in their cabinet, are of the same quality as Brighton, Villa and Cardiff may lead some to infer something about the quality of your judgement and nature of your posts.

[Apprentice to the Maestro]

I wouldn't infer much from a single, relatively early pre-season friendly, but equally, some are going way OTT about how good Porto are. In economic terms they're someone between a top 2 Championship side and a bottom 3 PL side. So comparable to Norwich.

Last season in the Champions League Porto were w5 d1 l0 in the Group Stage facing Schalke, Galatasaray and Locomotive Moscow and beat Roma in the round of 16 before losing to Liverpool, the eventual Champions.

Not bad for a Championship side or PL relegation side.

You are correct in that they had a good year in the Champions League. Doesn't really contradict what Statto wrote though, does it?

To most with an interest in football, how a team performs on the pitch is what counts, not how much money they turn over.

To compare Porto who have finished in the top three in their league for each of the last ten years and have won four European trophies with Norwich (no European trophies) or PL relegation clubs like Fulham or Championship promotion clubs is to seriously underestimating Porto's quality.

Out of interest, what do you think would have been a reasonable expectation if we'd been playing FC Flora? As I'm sure you're aware, FC Flora, commonly known as Flora Tallinn, are the most decorated club in Estonian football, with a record 11 Meistriliiga titles, seven Estonian Cups and a record nine Estonian Supercups. Given we've never won a major trophy, surely we could not be expected to compete with such a successful club.

Thank you for promptly illustrating the silliness of your posts.

[Sting of the North]

To most with an interest in football, how a team performs on the pitch is what counts, not how much money they turn over.

To compare Porto who have finished in the top three in their league for each of the last ten years and have won four European trophies with Norwich (no European trophies) or PL relegation clubs like Fulham or Championship promotion clubs is to seriously underestimating Porto's quality.

Ok. So you compare what one team does in one league with what another team does in another league? Is AIK in Sweden (current champions) a better team than Everton? Or Malmö (also Sweden)? They have participated in a few CL group stages the last few years, whereas Everton hasn't. They also have several league titles.

Or, if we are not playing that game (since it is pointless), then maybe it would be reasonable to acknowledge that there may be differences between the leagues? The Portuguese league is not bad (I think maybe 7th best league), but it is extremely top heavy with the three big teams. This all but guarantees European football every year for a team like Porto.

Again, Statto pointed out that we should maybe not be too carried away by the quality of the opposition. I find this reasonable, since I believe that Porto would be a mid table PL team at best. That doesn't detract from the fact that they are a very tough opponent for a Championship team, but they are no Juventus or Bayern Munich. It doesn't have to be one way or the other you know. 

[Sting of the North]

Thank you for promptly illustrating the silliness of your posts.

You could have chosen to engage in a reasonable discussion, but instead you opt to dismiss arguments in a childish manner. You could for example have tried to provide arguments for why you believe that Porto finishing top three in the seventh highest ranked league in Europe is so much better than a team finishing bottom half in the second highest ranked league in Europe.

[KJS]

Anyone critising FFC last night needs to get to the bookies and back Newcastle and West Ham to be relegated as they have just been hammered in friendly matches 🙄

[Sting of the North]

Anyone critising FFC last night needs to get to the bookies and back Newcastle and West Ham to be relegated as they have just been hammered in friendly matches 🙄

Does criticizing FFC's performance in a game automatically translate into believing that FFC (and every other team loosing a friendly) will inevitably be relegated? That makes no sense. 

[FFC1987]

Anyone critising FFC last night needs to get to the bookies and back Newcastle and West Ham to be relegated as they have just been hammered in friendly matches 🙄

Does criticizing FFC's performance in a game automatically translate into believing that FFC (and every other team loosing a friendly) will inevitably be relegated? That makes no sense.

Welcome to the board. If you criticise Christie, people think you hate him and that he isn't good enough to be a professional footballer but if you heap any praise on him, he's the world no.1 RB. It's weird how people can't seem to correlate that one can praise, and criticise the same thing without having to take a binary one sided position!

[Mince n Tatties]

Are you talking about Cyrus,or him from
10 Rillington Place Notting Hill.😋

[FFC1987]

Are you talking about Cyrus,or him from
10 Rillington Place Notting Hill.😋

Have you ever seen them at the same time!?

[Apprentice to the Maestro]

To most with an interest in football, how a team performs on the pitch is what counts, not how much money they turn over.

To compare Porto who have finished in the top three in their league for each of the last ten years and have won four European trophies with Norwich (no European trophies) or PL relegation clubs like Fulham or Championship promotion clubs is to seriously underestimating Porto's quality.

Ok. So you compare what one team does in one league with what another team does in another league? Is AIK in Sweden (current champions) a better team than Everton? Or Malmö (also Sweden)? They have participated in a few CL group stages the last few years, whereas Everton hasn't. They also have several league titles.

Or, if we are not playing that game (since it is pointless), then maybe it would be reasonable to acknowledge that there may be differences between the leagues? The Portuguese league is not bad (I think maybe 7th best league), but it is extremely top heavy with the three big teams. This all but guarantees European football every year for a team like Porto.

Again, Statto pointed out that we should maybe not be too carried away by the quality of the opposition. I find this reasonable, since I believe that Porto would be a mid table PL team at best. That doesn't detract from the fact that they are a very tough opponent for a Championship team, but they are no Juventus or Bayern Munich. It doesn't have to be one way or the other you know. 

If you reread the posts you will see that Statto was the poster to compare clubs across leagues, not me. He compared Porto to PL relegation and Championship clubs on the basis of their finances, not on their footballing ability.

I am not comparing leagues which cannot be done as your Malmo/Everton comparison tries to  illustrate. I am pointing to Porto's performances in European competition which are above PL relegation level, maybe as you suggest mid-table PL level.

Porto have had at least ten years of consistency in their own league leading to regular European competitions, they have won two European Cup/Champions League trophies and two UEFA Cup/Europa League trophies and had an impressive run in the Champions League just last season. That's Everton level or more it might be suggested.

And just to reiterate, it was only a pre-season game and, though pleasing that we were not outclassed and showed some flashes of creativity, not much weight should be placed on the performance.

[Woolly Mammoth]

Are you talking about Cyrus,or him from
10 Rillington Place Notting Hill.😋

Have you ever seen them at the same time!?

Only once, and that was in minces Shed.

[Sting of the North]

If you reread the posts you will see that Statto was the poster to compare clubs across leagues, not me. He compared Porto to PL relegation and Championship clubs on the basis of their finances, not on their footballing ability.

I am not comparing leagues which cannot be done as your Malmo/Everton comparison tries to  illustrate. I am pointing to Porto's performances in European competition which are above PL relegation level, maybe as you suggest mid-table PL level.

Porto have had at least ten years of consistency in their own league leading to regular European competitions, they have won two European Cup/Champions League trophies and two UEFA Cup/Europa League trophies and had an impressive run in the Champions League just last season. That's Everton level or more it might be suggested.

And just to reiterate, it was only a pre-season game and, though pleasing that we were not outclassed and showed some flashes of creativity, not much weight should be placed on the performance.

I think you missed my point. Statto compared economics, which should matter quite a bit since it would determine how much they could pay for a player. Even though there are of course other factors (climate, chance of European football and titles, culture etc.) the money a club has would roughly correspond with the quality of player that they can acquire. Therefore, the comparison is not pointless.

You compared league position between leagues that are not at all of the same quality (as far as I believe at least). This is a fairly pointless comparison without added context, as both me and Statto tried to point out by taking your own way of reasoning one (or maybe a few) step(s) further.

I do believe you have a point with their European play, but last year apart from Roma, Porto did not really go up against any really tough teams. It is also worth pointing out that it is of course easier to achieve European success if you have a reasonable chance to even participate regularly. Porto will always participate unless they have an absolutely catastrophic season, whereas most PL clubs will maybe get in by winning a domestic cup once every 10 years at best.

As for your last point, I believe that most posters has acknowledged this already. Still doesn't mean that one cannot be critical of or comment on the performance.