NFR, God save the King.

[Lighthouse]

Get rid of this childish Nationalistic rubbish and do without anthems. They are vile and disgusting and have no relevance in sport.

If we have to have Internationals at all then simply do without the anthems. They are a throw back and make sport into mini wars which they are not. God can save who he likes but not during a football match.

[Woolly Mammoth]

For me " I Vow To Thee My Country " stands out above all the rest.

[filham]

Get rid of this childish Nationalistic rubbish and do without anthems. They are vile and disgusting and have no relevance in sport.

If we have to have Internationals at all then simply do without the anthems. They are a throw back and make sport into mini wars which they are not. God can save who he likes but not during a football match.

Just possible that international matches with anthems could help to avoid wars. Have you noticed that countries at war with each other never play any sport together.

[Twig]

Dear god did I go into suspended animation and wake up to yet another discussion on this same stale subject?

[Southdowns White]

Dear god did I go into suspended animation and wake up to yet another discussion on this same stale subject?

Maybe newer members on here may not have discussed this topic and would like to have there say, understand other peoples points of views on subjects. I fear the one or two people who have reacted negatively to this post are possibly scared by the thought of change, my question has got nothing to do with whether you are a royalist or not, just a change to the appalling non English national anthem our sporting hero's are made to mouth before they play for our country. Would it not be better to just give this thread a miss if you have nothing constructive to add. It would actually be interesting for some of us to know what you and the general actually think about the anthem, not just knock people down when they discuss something you don't agree with or may have discussed before.

[Somerset Fulham]

for something uplifting that reflects England as a nation.

 

[Andy S]

GSTK is awful and should be replaced. It is not relevant to modern day life. Just organise a country wide vote.The old Queen has gone and so should the stupid song.

[ron]

land of hope & glory?

It would be my choice too , but in these Woke times there's no chance of that.

[Lighthouse]

Get rid of this childish Nationalistic rubbish and do without anthems. They are vile and disgusting and have no relevance in sport.

If we have to have Internationals at all then simply do without the anthems. They are a throw back and make sport into mini wars which they are not. God can save who he likes but not during a football match.

Just possible that international matches with anthems could help to avoid wars. Have you noticed that countries at war with each other never play any sport together.

You mean while they are actually in conflict. Like Argentina and England during the Falklands War?

[Holders]

For me " I Vow To Thee My Country " stands out above all the rest.

Above everything else, though? Really?

[Wolf]

An instrumental

[Lazybones]

An instrumental

Hmmmm... I think it has to have words.  Think of all the great communal sporting anthem moments — "Abide with me" before the FA Cup, "Swing low, sweet chariot", "O Flower of Scotland" — you need the choral element so everyone can add their voice.

[Colton F.C.]

Anyone for football's anthem!

[Holders]

An instrumental

Hmmmm... I think it has to have words.  Think of all the great communal sporting anthem moments — "Abide with me" before the FA Cup, "Swing low, sweet chariot", "O Flower of Scotland" — you need the choral element so everyone can add their voice.

Ode to Joy: uplifting, inclusive and choral.

[Rupert]

What you are mostly missing here is there is no need for an English anthem, because the English do not feel the need for one.

The UK is, to all intents and purposes, the rump of the English Empire, stretching all the way back to 1066. The British Empire was simply the English Empire at its height. England has conquered a sizable portion of the planet, over the centuries, but the first conquests were Wales, Scotland and Ireland. The Welsh, Scots and Irish have their divisions (Highland versus Lowland Scots, North and South Welsh, Northern Ireland and the Irish Republic), but they can forget those divisions when they have to unite and stand up to the English. And one way to stand up is to have your own anthem, which you belt out whenever you want to show the wretched English that they have not conquered your national spirit.

I was in Scotland last weekend, we took the mother in law, broomstick and all, to the Edinburgh Tattoo for her 80th birthday. It was a very good show (US Marines were a bit dodgy, Norwegians excellent, our lot excelled as usual) and the part at the end when the massed pipe bands marched off to "Scotland the Brave" stirred the blood, and no mistake. "God Save the King" was more dutifully done, rather than enthusiastically. Both served their purpose.
England has no anthem because England does not have a bullying neighbour (imagined or real) to stand up to. By the time we had lost the original Norman empire (100 Years War, we lost in extra time as the French carried on for 116 years) we were more into conquering the Celtic kingdoms, and our only real international threat was the Spanish Empire, which was already in decline. Once they shot their bolt with the Armada, the threat was theoretical, not real. Once the Celts were conquered, at least partially, we were forming the UK, and the UK got into the next round of international unpleasantries with the French, hence we have "God Save the King" as our anthem.

Over the next few decades there may be a greater move for Welsh, Northern Irish and Scottish independence from the English Empire, and at that stage we will either adopt "God Save the King" as our official anthem, or if the republicans hold sway, we will come up with something else, which we will comfort ourselves with as we watch the Scots and Welsh go into financial ruin.

[Holders]

What you are mostly missing here is there is no need for an English anthem, because the English do not feel the need for one.

The UK is, to all intents and purposes, the rump of the English Empire, stretching all the way back to 1066. The British Empire was simply the English Empire at its height. England has conquered a sizable portion of the planet, over the centuries, but the first conquests were Wales, Scotland and Ireland. The Welsh, Scots and Irish have their divisions (Highland versus Lowland Scots, North and South Welsh, Northern Ireland and the Irish Republic), but they can forget those divisions when they have to unite and stand up to the English. And one way to stand up is to have your own anthem, which you belt out whenever you want to show the wretched English that they have not conquered your national spirit.

I was in Scotland last weekend, we took the mother in law, broomstick and all, to the Edinburgh Tattoo for her 80th birthday. It was a very good show (US Marines were a bit dodgy, Norwegians excellent, our lot excelled as usual) and the part at the end when the massed pipe bands marched off to "Scotland the Brave" stirred the blood, and no mistake. "God Save the King" was more dutifully done, rather than enthusiastically. Both served their purpose.
England has no anthem because England does not have a bullying neighbour (imagined or real) to stand up to. By the time we had lost the original Norman empire (100 Years War, we lost in extra time as the French carried on for 116 years) we were more into conquering the Celtic kingdoms, and our only real international threat was the Spanish Empire, which was already in decline. Once they shot their bolt with the Armada, the threat was theoretical, not real. Once the Celts were conquered, at least partially, we were forming the UK, and the UK got into the next round of international unpleasantries with the French, hence we have "God Save the King" as our anthem.

Over the next few decades there may be a greater move for Welsh, Northern Irish and Scottish independence from the English Empire, and at that stage we will either adopt "God Save the King" as our official anthem, or if the republicans hold sway, we will come up with something else, which we will comfort ourselves with as we watch the Scots and Welsh go into financial ruin.

Some good and resonating points here. England has perceived the need over the years, as being the "senior partner" in a slightly uncomfortable union, to suppress its identity. Not just through an anthem but in terms of celebrating its traditions and individuality. Go to Scotland or Wales (or Ireland) and they feel free to (and the need) celebrate their traditions and national identity and this manifests in their sporting anthems. Such tradition as remains in England is most often despised or scoffed at.

The first problem with GSTK, as an overarching anthem and residually used for England (again, as the senior partner), is that it lauds two concepts which many people feel are anachronistic and uninclusive in the modern world. Secondly, it's a dreary dirge and utterly uninspiring.

I doubt it'll change for centuries though.

[Lazybones]

An instrumental

Hmmmm... I think it has to have words.  Think of all the great communal sporting anthem moments — "Abide with me" before the FA Cup, "Swing low, sweet chariot", "O Flower of Scotland" — you need the choral element so everyone can add their voice.

Ode to Joy: uplifting, inclusive and choral.

I agree.  There's lots to like there. 

However, very, very German. And that's probably a deal-breaker, don't you think?

[Holders]

An instrumental

Hmmmm... I think it has to have words.  Think of all the great communal sporting anthem moments — "Abide with me" before the FA Cup, "Swing low, sweet chariot", "O Flower of Scotland" — you need the choral element so everyone can add their voice.

Ode to Joy: uplifting, inclusive and choral.

I agree.  There's lots to like there. 

However, very, very German. And that's probably a deal-breaker, don't you think?

It was tongue in cheek, of course, but as an example that fits the criteria of a good anthem it's far better than the dirge.

[Southdowns White]

What you are mostly missing here is there is no need for an English anthem, because the English do not feel the need for one.

The UK is, to all intents and purposes, the rump of the English Empire, stretching all the way back to 1066. The British Empire was simply the English Empire at its height. England has conquered a sizable portion of the planet, over the centuries, but the first conquests were Wales, Scotland and Ireland. The Welsh, Scots and Irish have their divisions (Highland versus Lowland Scots, North and South Welsh, Northern Ireland and the Irish Republic), but they can forget those divisions when they have to unite and stand up to the English. And one way to stand up is to have your own anthem, which you belt out whenever you want to show the wretched English that they have not conquered your national spirit.

I was in Scotland last weekend, we took the mother in law, broomstick and all, to the Edinburgh Tattoo for her 80th birthday. It was a very good show (US Marines were a bit dodgy, Norwegians excellent, our lot excelled as usual) and the part at the end when the massed pipe bands marched off to "Scotland the Brave" stirred the blood, and no mistake. "God Save the King" was more dutifully done, rather than enthusiastically. Both served their purpose.
England has no anthem because England does not have a bullying neighbour (imagined or real) to stand up to. By the time we had lost the original Norman empire (100 Years War, we lost in extra time as the French carried on for 116 years) we were more into conquering the Celtic kingdoms, and our only real international threat was the Spanish Empire, which was already in decline. Once they shot their bolt with the Armada, the threat was theoretical, not real. Once the Celts were conquered, at least partially, we were forming the UK, and the UK got into the next round of international unpleasantries with the French, hence we have "God Save the King" as our anthem.

Over the next few decades there may be a greater move for Welsh, Northern Irish and Scottish independence from the English Empire, and at that stage we will either adopt "God Save the King" as our official anthem, or if the republicans hold sway, we will come up with something else, which we will comfort ourselves with as we watch the Scots and Welsh go into financial ruin.

Some good and resonating points here. England has perceived the need over the years, as being the "senior partner" in a slightly uncomfortable union, to suppress its identity. Not just through an anthem but in terms of celebrating its traditions and individuality. Go to Scotland or Wales (or Ireland) and they feel free to (and the need) celebrate their traditions and national identity and this manifests in their sporting anthems. Such tradition as remains in England is most often despised or scoffed at.

The first problem with GSTK, as an overarching anthem and residually used for England (again, as the senior partner), is that it lauds two concepts which many people feel are anachronistic and uninclusive in the modern world. Secondly, it's a dreary dirge and utterly uninspiring.

I doubt it'll change for centuries though.

Thank you guys, nice to have some interesting debate without getting over political or insulting anyone.

[Twig]

Dear god did I go into suspended animation and wake up to yet another discussion on this same stale subject?

Maybe newer members on here may not have discussed this topic and would like to have there say, understand other peoples points of views on subjects. I fear the one or two people who have reacted negatively to this post are possibly scared by the thought of change, my question has got nothing to do with whether you are a royalist or not, just a change to the appalling non English national anthem our sporting hero's are made to mouth before they play for our country. Would it not be better to just give this thread a miss if you have nothing constructive to add. It would actually be interesting for some of us to know what you and the general actually think about the anthem, not just knock people down when they discuss something you don't agree with or may have discussed before.

To make my viewpoint clear. I dislike and distrust petty nationalism, I only have to look at the fragmentation of some nation states in Europe and elsewhere and to the nasty conflicts that have resulted. I also detest populist, rabble rousing leaders who utilise jingoism to achieve power.
I understand and relate to pride in one's country but not blinkered nationalism. Personally I have never seen England as my country, I am proud of the United Kingdom and of many people and nationalities that constitute the UK. Therefore I feel absolutely no need for an English anthem.
I was also proud to be a part of Europe and am saddened that we are no longer contributing to the European Union.