WCF: 3rd Play-off & Final

[Logicalman]

• Third place

Brazil vs Netherlands

Estádio Nacional de Brasilia, Brasília

Sat July 12, 3:00 PM

• Final

Germany vs Argentina

Estádio Maracanã, Rio de Janeiro

Sunday July 13, 2:00 PM

Please use this thread for BOTH 3rd Place and Final matches or Team/Player discussions



WCF: Knockout Stage - Semi-Finals Semi-Finals

WCF: Quarter-Finals - All Countries Quarter-Finals

WCF: Round of 16 - All Countries Round of 16

Group Stage Threads:
WCF: Group A : Brazil-Croatia-Mexico-Cameroon    
WCF: Group B: Australia-Chile-Netherlands-Spain    
WCF: Group C: Colombia-Côte d'Ivoire-Greece-Japan    
WCF: Group D: Costa Rica-England-Italy-Uruguay    
WCF: Group E: Ecuador-France-Honduras-Switzerland    
WCF: Group F: Argentina-Bosnia and Herzegovina-Iran-Nigeria    
WCF: Group G: Germany-Ghana-Portugal-USA    
WCF: Group H: Algeria-Belgium-Korea Republic-Russia


......

[grandad]

Looked like the 1st contact on Robben was outside the area. Never seen anyone else react to the slightest touch as him. How I detest him.

[SP]

It's just like watching Fulham! 0-2 after 16 mins.

[grandad]

It's just like watching Fulham! 0-2 after 16 mins.

I assume you mean Ipswich 0 - 2 Fulham

[cmg]

Comedy of errors. Pathetic defending, first grabbed outside of box, should have been red card.

Then Luiz adds his own special brand of Primary school defending.

[God The Mechanic]

First contact doesn't matter if it continues into the box, though I don't think it did.  So should have been a free kick and a red, but the ref gave a penalty and a yellow...

Didn't think much of the game personally, Brazil just didn't look like they cared that much so it was all over after the early goals.  Netherlands weren't that good either, they just went through the motions.  Let's hope for an awesome final though!

[Bluesky1]

Brazil's total after its latest 2 matches is 1-10!!!!

What a humiliation for the host nation. Truely unbelievable.

But to be honest, they had a really bad team, that got favoured by referres to reach the semi-finals. Colombia was so much better than them.

[Black, White and Fred]

I for one think the ref has actually made a great decision there, all this nonsense about 'riding the challenge' and 'had a right to go down' does my head in. It's just glorified diving, if you are fouled and gravity forces you to the floor, fine. But going down because you have the right too is just ridiculous and it really degrades the sport.

IN MY OPIOION before anyone kicks off.

Also Thiago Silva should have seen red and it was a freekick, but we aren't all perfect.

[mitimo]

Robben spends more time on his back than an Amsterdam hooker!!  Out and out cheat.

[Nero]

Silva prob got a Yellow cos it was the 3rd minute and a meaningless game,

I take it that it was him that ran into Blind, defo a drive you could see him going down before he got there straighten his leg and throw it out to make sure he got contact. Its like running into someone and claiming assault or like that Italian who stuck his shoulder into Suarez teeth.

[J.Perkins]

Robben is like Suarez. Massively talented footballer, but a cheat none the less.

[cmg]

I for one think the ref has actually made a great decision there, all this nonsense about 'riding the challenge' and 'had a right to go down' does my head in. It's just glorified diving, if you are fouled and gravity forces you to the floor, fine. But going down because you have the right too is just ridiculous and it really degrades the sport.

IN MY OPIOION before anyone kicks off.

Also Thiago Silva should have seen red and it was a freekick, but we aren't all perfect.

I agree with all three points (in fact all four points as even I am not always perfect).

For me the most annoying thing about the Oscar booking was the way the commentator (whoever) tried to make out it was the wrong decision. As Blind came in for the tackle (which, ironically, was late and would almost certainly have led to a legitimate penalty), it can be clearly seen that, before any contact happens, Oscar drags both toes together and thus makes sure he will fall whatever the subsequent contact. This is clearly cheating, and stupid too because if he had continued normally he (obviously he doesn't have to jump over Blind's leg) would almost certainly have been brought down.

[Lighthouse]

The ref also got the decision not to send a player off and to give a penalty.

The foul however was outside the area and the player should have been sent off. But the game would have suffered. Not easy being a ref. When you are right you are wrong and visa-versa.

[Blanco]

The ref made the right decision not giving Thiago Silva a red card. 3rd place game, 3-4 minutes in... not neccesary. He got his yellow and holland got their pen. Should have been a freekick anyway. Red would have ruined the game even more for Brazil anyway.

Oscar dived before the contact though.

[cmg]

The ref made the right decision not giving Thiago Silva a red card. 3rd place game, 3-4 minutes in... not neccesary. He got his yellow and holland got their pen. Should have been a freekick anyway. Red would have ruined the game even more for Brazil anyway.

I totally accept what you say, and I even kind of agree with you - certainly with the basic idea. But this kind of discretionary law-interpretation by referees is a dangerous route to travel. Should there be a sliding scale of 'importance of match/minutes gone' to determine when 'the denial of an obvious goalscoring opportunity' should be rewarded by a red card?

If, in the first minute of the match v. Ipswich, McCormack bursts through on goal and the only way to stop him is to grab his shirt and pull him back would we be happy if the ref said, "obvious goalscoring opportunity, but it is the first match of the season and there's a big crowd here expecting a close game, so...yellow card,eh?"

Stupid question really, as I think we all know the answer - but you see what I'm getting at? Thin end of wedges and all that.

[Black, White and Fred]

Totally agree it also enables the growls to sway refs which we all know happens. Try getting a pen at Old Trafford!

[God The Mechanic]

The ref made the right decision not giving Thiago Silva a red card. 3rd place game, 3-4 minutes in... not neccesary. He got his yellow and holland got their pen. Should have been a freekick anyway. Red would have ruined the game even more for Brazil anyway.

Oscar dived before the contact though.

Importance of the game and timing of the incident should have absolutely NO baring on what the referee does, that's poor officiating.  It isn't up to the ref to keep 11 players a side, it's the players' duty to do so.  The ref is there to enforce the rules/laws of the game, not make it up as he goes along when there is clear precedent and direction for what he is supposed to do.  I understand why he gave a penalty, as it was an incredibly fine margin, however to not give a red card basically says "I know the rules, but sod 'em" which he has no right to do.

As for the Oscar dive/penalty/yellow card... he was going down before the contact, but I do understand why players go down with minimal contact when we see clear fouls not given when they don't.  Equally he WAS fouled, just after he started to go down.  Can you still be fouled if you're diving?  I think you probably can...

[cmg]

  Equally he WAS fouled, just after he started to go down.  Can you still be fouled if you're diving?  I think you probably can...

Interesting. We are talking fractions of a second here so the discussion is more theoretical than practical, but I think you probably can't. Once you've started diving, as Oscar did as soon as he brought his toes together, you've committed an offence. Caution and indirect free kick. If the tackler then clatters the diver with an horrendous tackle then he might get a red card but the original offence (diving) will still stand. The Laws don't seem totally clear on this, so I may be wrong.

This business might well have a more direct bearing on our coming season. We will, hopefully, see a lot more possession this season and we have in contention a few players who are absolute 'penalty magnets'. I am not suggesting for a moment that any of them are divers (evidence is totally to the contrary), but, in the past, even before diving became as common as it is now, players whose style of play brought them frequent penalty claims (AJ before he came to us is a good example of this) soon became accused of diving and eventually weren't able to buy a penalty even if axed down like an oak on the penalty spot.

[God The Mechanic]

  Equally he WAS fouled, just after he started to go down.  Can you still be fouled if you're diving?  I think you probably can...

Interesting. We are talking fractions of a second here so the discussion is more theoretical than practical, but I think you probably can't. Once you've started diving, as Oscar did as soon as he brought his toes together, you've committed an offence. Caution and indirect free kick. If the tackler then clatters the diver with an horrendous tackle then he might get a red card but the original offence (diving) will still stand. The Laws don't seem totally clear on this, so I may be wrong.

This business might well have a more direct bearing on our coming season. We will, hopefully, see a lot more possession this season and we have in contention a few players who are absolute 'penalty magnets'. I am not suggesting for a moment that any of them are divers (evidence is totally to the contrary), but, in the past, even before diving became as common as it is now, players whose style of play brought them frequent penalty claims (AJ before he came to us is a good example of this) soon became accused of diving and eventually weren't able to buy a penalty even if axed down like an oak on the penalty spot.

It IS possibly, though rarely seen, for players to do the whole "feet together dragging on the pitch" and recover to keep their balance though.  So at what point during a dive is a dive a dive? ;P  and what if they're trying to jump OVER the tackle, but don't manage to do so?  That could look like a dive, similar starting action, but would be completely legitimate.

Something needs to be done with how penalties/dives are awarded imo.  Refs need to be way more proactive in giving fouls when players don't go down or don't fully stop moving, else players HAVE to go down easily or dramatically in order to even have the slightest chance of getting a penalty at times - it can be quite ridiculous.

[crazycottager]

Totally agree it also enables the growls to sway refs which we all know happens. Try getting a pen at Old Trafford!

Absolutely agree, the crowd and the standing of the home team both come into account, and I'm fed up with it, i enjoy the fact that they complain now they are a mid table club, it's time for them to wake up and sit through what so many have been through at old trafford. Sorry, just had to vent a bit there