Vaccine

[toshes mate]

The WHO are sending a team of investigators to China to investigate the origin of the virus. This should of been mid December last year.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/dec/16/who-research-team-expected-to-travel-to-wuhan-to-investigate-coronavirus-origin

It looks and sounds like hindsight is a wonderful thing but had it been done what do you think may have changed from what has happened?  There are some earlier references of possible events of Covid-19, in North Carolina and France for example, but much testing is not very accurate even now with all we have found out about the efficacy of PCR and lateral flow test and the knowledge they all need clinical investigation alongside the test in order to make informed judgements.   The outbreak happened when it did and the WHO behaved as it has been politically designed to behave.

Thousands of lives would have been saved worldwide, that is the whole point of the WHO existing. If they issued a global warning and advised on everybody wearing masks and some social distancing, then many, many lives would have been saved. As for North Carolina and France, I think we've been there before. China has been busy blaming other countries.     

I am sorry to say, rebel, that you cannot claim thousands of lives would have been saved.  Seasonal 'flu around the world takes out hundreds of thousands of elderly people every year and has done for decades.   As blingo says above herd immunity stands between us and any virus and vaccines help to prevent the deaths spreading too far outside the group of people who will always become more vulnerable to them as they get older.   The world population is growing but the proportion of deaths remains pretty constant and even 2020 will not be particularly different if you are pragmatic and read the facts carefully (i.e. ignore MSM propaganda and read the science that you have to look for yourself because you won't find it pushed by the mainstream).

[rebel]

The WHO are sending a team of investigators to China to investigate the origin of the virus. This should of been mid December last year.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/dec/16/who-research-team-expected-to-travel-to-wuhan-to-investigate-coronavirus-origin

It looks and sounds like hindsight is a wonderful thing but had it been done what do you think may have changed from what has happened?  There are some earlier references of possible events of Covid-19, in North Carolina and France for example, but much testing is not very accurate even now with all we have found out about the efficacy of PCR and lateral flow test and the knowledge they all need clinical investigation alongside the test in order to make informed judgements.   The outbreak happened when it did and the WHO behaved as it has been politically designed to behave.

Thousands of lives would have been saved worldwide, that is the whole point of the WHO existing. If they issued a global warning and advised on everybody wearing masks and some social distancing, then many, many lives would have been saved. As for North Carolina and France, I think we've been there before. China has been busy blaming other countries.     

I am sorry to say, rebel, that you cannot claim thousands of lives would have been saved.  Seasonal 'flu around the world takes out hundreds of thousands of elderly people every year and has done for decades.   As blingo says above herd immunity stands between us and any virus and vaccines help to prevent the deaths spreading too far outside the group of people who will always become more vulnerable to them as they get older.   The world population is growing but the proportion of deaths remains pretty constant and even 2020 will not be particularly different if you are pragmatic and read the facts carefully (i.e. ignore MSM propaganda and read the science that you have to look for yourself because you won't find it pushed by the mainstream).

I am saying exactly that, thousands of lives would have been saved. Various studies has shown that had the initial Lockdown in the UK happened weeks earlier, then 'X' number of lives could have been saved. I'm not talking about seasonal flu, that's a totally different thing.

[filham]

It is worth repeating that the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine does nothing to protect other people from infection by you if you catch Covid-19 and are asymptomatic by virtue of the vaccine.  Crazy but true.

I understood that it has yet to be determined whether or not the vacine would prevent re transmission by carriers but that there is hope that it will.

[toshes mate]

It is worth repeating that the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine does nothing to protect other people from infection by you if you catch Covid-19 and are asymptomatic by virtue of the vaccine.  Crazy but true.

I understood that it has yet to be determined whether or not the vacine would prevent re transmission by carriers but that there is hope that it will.

The vaccine isn't designed to give immunity but there is always a chance with much more rigorous test and track regime studies we will find out who infects who.  That is what the the Icelandic process referred to above is designed to achieve and how they know some valuable stuff (to everybody) about the virus.  There will be more of this stuff as testing standards improve and the other vaccines come on stream.

[Statto]

It is worth repeating that the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine does nothing to protect other people from infection by you if you catch Covid-19 and are asymptomatic by virtue of the vaccine.  Crazy but true.

I understood that it has yet to be determined whether or not the vacine would prevent re transmission by carriers but that there is hope that it will.

that was my understanding also

[blingo]

It is worth repeating that the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine does nothing to protect other people from infection by you if you catch Covid-19 and are asymptomatic by virtue of the vaccine.  Crazy but true.

I understood that it has yet to be determined whether or not the vacine would prevent re transmission by carriers but that there is hope that it will.

that was my understanding also

So immunisation jab on something they cant say wont necessarily stop re-transmission? Have we all been brainwashed that badly?

First they have produced vaccines in record time, secondly, the vaccines produced, reportedly, are twice as effective as any brought out before. The more I look at it, the less chance I will take it. For the record I'm 64 Diabetic and have High blood pressure.

The next thing they will try to convince me of is that if my aunty had a pair or nuts, she'd be my uncle. UNBELIEVABLE

[mrmicawbers]

It is worth repeating that the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine does nothing to protect other people from infection by you if you catch Covid-19 and are asymptomatic by virtue of the vaccine.  Crazy but true.

I understood that it has yet to be determined whether or not the vacine would prevent re transmission by carriers but that there is hope that it will.

that was my understanding also

So immunisation jab on something they cant say wont necessarily stop re-transmission? Have we all been brainwashed that badly?

First they have produced vaccines in record time, secondly, the vaccines produced, reportedly, are twice as effective as any brought out before. The more I look at it, the less chance I will take it. For the record I'm 64 Diabetic and have High blood pressure.

The next thing they will try to convince me of is that if my aunty had a pair or nuts, she'd be my uncle. UNBELIEVABLE

ok Blingo ,what do you intend doing if you don't take the vaccine and the pubs and football grounds restaurants etc go back to some normality.Stay indoors?

[toshes mate]

Here is my best effort at explaining the problem of immunity and the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine.  The first paragraph is how it works.

The spike protein in SARS-CoV-2  is recognised as foreign by the immune system, which mounts an attack against it. Antibodies, B-cells and T-cells are activated.  An immune memory is also laid down, which means the immune system has learned how to defeat the pathogen and is primed to mount a swift response if it encounters the coronavirus again.  The mRNA vaccine produces this effect in the person receiving it.

Take three people A, B and C.
 
A is infected with SARS-CoV-2.  A's healthy immune system naturally recognises the spike protein from a previous coronavirus attack (including a prior SARS-CoV-2 attack) and mounts a swift response which eliminates symptoms and allows him to continue as normal not knowing if they are infectious or not.

B is vaccinated with the mRNA vaccine.  This enables his immune system to the same standard as person A.   B is infected with SARS-CoV-2 and his immune system mounts a swift attack but fails to prevent all the symptoms and he falls ill for a few days and has to self-isolate since he may be infectious.

C is vaccinated with the mRNA vaccine.  This enables his immune system to the same standard as persons A and B.  C is infected with SARS-CoV-2 and his immune system mounts a swift attack which eliminates symptoms and allows him to continue as normal not knowing if they are infectious or not.

What is the difference between these three people who have all been infected with SARS-CoV-2?   Are all or only some asymptomatic people not infectious?   If we don't know that for the population at large then how can we know it for a smaller group without also knowing how it works for the whole population?

[blingo]

It is worth repeating that the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine does nothing to protect other people from infection by you if you catch Covid-19 and are asymptomatic by virtue of the vaccine.  Crazy but true.

I understood that it has yet to be determined whether or not the vacine would prevent re transmission by carriers but that there is hope that it will.

that was my understanding also

So immunisation jab on something they cant say wont necessarily stop re-transmission? Have we all been brainwashed that badly?

First they have produced vaccines in record time, secondly, the vaccines produced, reportedly, are twice as effective as any brought out before. The more I look at it, the less chance I will take it. For the record I'm 64 Diabetic and have High blood pressure.

The next thing they will try to convince me of is that if my aunty had a pair or nuts, she'd be my uncle. UNBELIEVABLE

ok Blingo ,what do you intend doing if you don't take the vaccine and the pubs and football grounds restaurants etc go back to some normality.Stay indoors?

They can't force you to take this vaccine. The Governments will have to decide what is right or not. Why are the govs of the world not then making it compulsory to take it?

[mrmicawbers]

It is worth repeating that the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine does nothing to protect other people from infection by you if you catch Covid-19 and are asymptomatic by virtue of the vaccine.  Crazy but true.

I understood that it has yet to be determined whether or not the vacine would prevent re transmission by carriers but that there is hope that it will.

that was my understanding also

So immunisation jab on something they cant say wont necessarily stop re-transmission? Have we all been brainwashed that badly?

First they have produced vaccines in record time, secondly, the vaccines produced, reportedly, are twice as effective as any brought out before. The more I look at it, the less chance I will take it. For the record I'm 64 Diabetic and have High blood pressure.

The next thing they will try to convince me of is that if my aunty had a pair or nuts, she'd be my uncle. UNBELIEVABLE

ok Blingo ,what do you intend doing if you don't take the vaccine and the pubs and football grounds restaurants etc go back to some normality.Stay indoors?

They can't force you to take this vaccine. The Governments will have to decide what is right or not. Why are the govs of the world not then making it compulsory to take it?

I am not suggesting it should be compulsory just asking someone like you goodself how you intend to carry on whilst resisting taking the Vaccine when restrictions ease.

[Twig]

It is worth repeating that the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine does nothing to protect other people from infection by you if you catch Covid-19 and are asymptomatic by virtue of the vaccine.  Crazy but true.

I understood that it has yet to be determined whether or not the vacine would prevent re transmission by carriers but that there is hope that it will.

that was my understanding also

Me too

[Twig]

It is worth repeating that the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine does nothing to protect other people from infection by you if you catch Covid-19 and are asymptomatic by virtue of the vaccine.  Crazy but true.

I understood that it has yet to be determined whether or not the vacine would prevent re transmission by carriers but that there is hope that it will.

that was my understanding also

So immunisation jab on something they cant say wont necessarily stop re-transmission? Have we all been brainwashed that badly?

First they have produced vaccines in record time, secondly, the vaccines produced, reportedly, are twice as effective as any brought out before. The more I look at it, the less chance I will take it. For the record I'm 64 Diabetic and have High blood pressure.

The next thing they will try to convince me of is that if my aunty had a pair or nuts, she'd be my uncle. UNBELIEVABLE

Personally I find your attitude a complete disgrace. And your refusal to take the vaccine anti-social and irresponsible. I also find your comments about brainwashing totally unjustified.

You must do as you wish however I hope we don't hear you complaint if your stance means you can't get on a flight, can't enter crowded venues, etc. You will just have to suck it up.

[Statto]

It is worth repeating that the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine does nothing to protect other people from infection by you if you catch Covid-19 and are asymptomatic by virtue of the vaccine.  Crazy but true.

I understood that it has yet to be determined whether or not the vacine would prevent re transmission by carriers but that there is hope that it will.

that was my understanding also

So immunisation jab on something they cant say wont necessarily stop re-transmission? Have we all been brainwashed that badly?

First they have produced vaccines in record time, secondly, the vaccines produced, reportedly, are twice as effective as any brought out before. The more I look at it, the less chance I will take it. For the record I'm 64 Diabetic and have High blood pressure.

The next thing they will try to convince me of is that if my aunty had a pair or nuts, she'd be my uncle. UNBELIEVABLE

The vaccine will reduce your chances of getting sick

If you don't want to take it, fine, but it means you may get the virus, you may end up in ICU with pneumonia, and that may mean there isn't a spare bed for some poor kid who comes in after you having been caught in a nasty RTA or something 

As I've said on other threads, the moral quandary would be resolved IMO if those who've declined the vaccine, then end up seriously ill with Covid, were either turned away or deprioritised if they turn up at an NHS hospital. If they're so comfortable with the virus' low mortality rate that shouldn't be an issue for them.

[john dempsey]

Ooh spiteful.

[rebel]

The biggest 'unknown' is once people are inoculated, how long will the vaccine protect them, they can give a definitive answer. Two experts were being interviewed at the same time. One said 2 years, the other rowed back on that saying we don't know, could be between 6 - 12 months. They just don't know, it's guess work at the moment.

[MikeTheCubed]

Imagine being threatened with societal ostracization for not taking an experimental vaccine for a virus that has a ~+99% survival rate, when it's not even known whether the vaccine will prevent contagiousness.

[Peabody]

I am third in the list being 75 but I am concerned about any possible after effects.

092.gif

The only after effect I have bog is a sore arm.

[Burt]

I am third in the list being 75 but I am concerned about any possible after effects.

092.gif

The only after effect I have bog is a sore arm.

My mum had it a couple of days ago and said it was no worse than her annual flu jab, in terms of there being a scratching sensation when the injection happens, and a slightly sore arm for a day or so.

She's happy, although regardless of the vaccine the impact of Covid this past year has made her naturally more cautious when out and about. As a very active, sociable 85 year-old it's been a bit of a change for her.

[Peabody]

Look, we are in middle of something we have never experienced before, a pandemic that if left unchallenged, could decimate whole populations, as well as the economies of the whole world, an effect that could not only effect our children but also our grandchildren and all that follow them.

So, I see it my duty to take these vaccines, even if the give me green hair and my teeth fall out. Apparently, COVID 19 is not going to go away and therefore we must take any steps to counter it's virulence and make sure it doesn't cause to much harm.

I am not the greatest fan of Boris and think he is playing a dangerous game over the
Christmas business but he is our PM and We have to go with him.

I have had the vaccine, it doesn't hurt except for a sore arm, so just get in the queue and get yours too

[john dempsey]

Don't worry about the sore arm
one of the side effects is that you will
be growing three more in a few months.