Vaccine

[blingo]

I find Gibraltar's statistics unusual. Throughout the whole pandemic up until the jab was rolled out on January 10th it had reported 16 Covid deaths. Over the course of the next 30 days this toll skyrocketed up to 83. Gibraltar now finds itself #1 by a significant margin in the nations league table of Covid deaths per capita.

As for whether the jab is saving lives, I'm aware of the news stories where experts have said "clear evidence of increased antibodies/t-cells in recipients" or "clear drop in hospitalisations / deaths / positive tests in recipients", yet I don't see a clear correlation in the overall mortality figures. UK & Israel have jabbed far more per-capita than the big European countries, and yet whether you look at raw Covid deaths per-capita or excess-mortality % the UK has massively overshadowed European countries throughout much of winter, while Israel has only performed narrowly better than Germany (despite frequently jabbing 10 times as many people per-capita). Granted there are a multitude of factors which can hinder the compatibility of comparing different countries at any given point in time.

I don't think so, but still, your figures are wrong. We have had 94 deaths, inflicted by Spaniards coming over. We THEN had a mini lockdown and are now one of the only, if not THE ONLY country in the world that is covid free.

83 deaths as of February 10th, to be clear.

Feb 10th there were 85 deaths mainly in care homes where it swept through like fire as it has in every care home everywhere.

[Lighthouse]

I know for a fact that every one on this thread will die of something.

The real mystery is why we all live the way we do and support systems that have let us down for generations.

But we all do.  :005:

[blingo]

I know for a fact that every one on this thread will die of something.

The real mystery is why we all live the way we do and support systems that have let us down for generations.

But we all do.  :005:

Good to see you posting  :54: :54: :54:

[toshes mate]

Right at the very beginnings of the epidemic research was showing T-Cell reactivity to SARS-CoV-2 in almost all Covid-19 symptom positive (by anecdote) patients.   The same has been seen in people vaccinated with a 'flu jab since that is what they are designed to do.  The problem may be that people started talking 'antibodies' in the T-Cell discussions and seemed to get rather confused about the efficacy of either or both in immune system responses to a coronavirus.  You could argue that at the time the experts were looking at the dark side and ignoring the lighter shades. 

The virologists on the TWiV panel discussed immune responses back last Spring which suggested that people with less responsive, in their words 'almost lazy', immune systems fared better than those with 'on a knife edge' immune systems.  The latter seemed more likely to over respond although the data couldn't determine why.   I am hoping that any inquiry into or investigation of the UK's handling of the virus will look at why we didn't make use of the many anti-viral drugs already available (but not stockpiled) as prophylactics (also discussed in the TWiV video I posted earlier today).     We were caught with our pants down and that is where the main focus needs to shine although I wouldn't guess there will be any excitement over what was exposed, more likely much laughter long and loud and a lot of sadness about those who needlessly died.  IMO.

[MikeTheCubed]

I find Gibraltar's statistics unusual. Throughout the whole pandemic up until the jab was rolled out on January 10th it had reported 16 Covid deaths. Over the course of the next 30 days this toll skyrocketed up to 83. Gibraltar now finds itself #1 by a significant margin in the nations league table of Covid deaths per capita.

As for whether the jab is saving lives, I'm aware of the news stories where experts have said "clear evidence of increased antibodies/t-cells in recipients" or "clear drop in hospitalisations / deaths / positive tests in recipients", yet I don't see a clear correlation in the overall mortality figures. UK & Israel have jabbed far more per-capita than the big European countries, and yet whether you look at raw Covid deaths per-capita or excess-mortality % the UK has massively overshadowed European countries throughout much of winter, while Israel has only performed narrowly better than Germany (despite frequently jabbing 10 times as many people per-capita). Granted there are a multitude of factors which can hinder the compatibility of comparing different countries at any given point in time.

I don't think so, but still, your figures are wrong. We have had 94 deaths, inflicted by Spaniards coming over. We THEN had a mini lockdown and are now one of the only, if not THE ONLY country in the world that is covid free.

83 deaths as of February 10th, to be clear.

Feb 10th there were 85 deaths mainly in care homes where it swept through like fire as it has in every care home everywhere.

To be clear again I'm not attempting to cast judgement on Gibraltar. What I find unusual is the timing of that surge in deaths in relation to the jab rollout. If that coincided with a surge of incoming travel from Spain that could very well have been a factor, but we're nonetheless told this jab is supposed to be providing protection.

https://www.devonlive.com/news/devon-news/nine-covid-19-deaths-exmouth-5156936

This is a care home which had reportedly not suffered any Covid cases throughout the entire pandemic by the time the jab was rolled out to all of its residents in January. Yet it is sadly reported that between the first detection of a Covid case in February and March 12th the home has lost nearly a 3rd of its residents.

[blingo]

Mike there was a spike in infections due to spaniards coming over. No ones fault. Unfortunately it got into our care homes and the majority of the mortalities are from them. That includes an aunt of mine who had been there for fifteen years with Alzheimers and the covid killed her in three days. No ones fault but sad for those affected. We have to accept that we can not stop a virus. It really is nature's way of rebalancing the scales. Old and weak die, the young and fit do not. No offence taken in anything you have posted my friend.

[toshes mate]

In looking at transmission events, Jayanta Bhattacharya, a Professor of Medicine at Stanford University has stated:

"The scientific evidence now strongly suggests that COVID-19 infected individuals who are asymptomatic are more than an order of magnitude less likely to spread the disease to even close contacts than symptomatic COVID-19 patients. A meta-analysis of 54 studies from around the world found that within households – where none of the safeguards that restaurants are required to apply are typically applied – symptomatic patients passed on the disease to household members in 18 per cent of instances, while asymptomatic patients passed on the disease to household members in 0.7 per cent of instances. A separate, smaller meta-analysis similarly found that asymptomatic patients are much less likely to infect others than symptomatic patients.

"Asymptomatic individuals are an order of magnitude less likely to infect others than symptomatic individuals, even in intimate settings such as people living in the same household where people are much less likely to follow social distancing and masking practices that they follow outside the household. Spread of the disease in less intimate settings by asymptomatic individuals – including religious services, in-person restaurant visits, gyms, and other public settings – are likely to be even less likely than in the household."

[Holders]

I find Gibraltar's statistics unusual. Throughout the whole pandemic up until the jab was rolled out on January 10th it had reported 16 Covid deaths. Over the course of the next 30 days this toll skyrocketed up to 83. Gibraltar now finds itself #1 by a significant margin in the nations league table of Covid deaths per capita.

As for whether the jab is saving lives, I'm aware of the news stories where experts have said "clear evidence of increased antibodies/t-cells in recipients" or "clear drop in hospitalisations / deaths / positive tests in recipients", yet I don't see a clear correlation in the overall mortality figures. UK & Israel have jabbed far more per-capita than the big European countries, and yet whether you look at raw Covid deaths per-capita or excess-mortality % the UK has massively overshadowed European countries throughout much of winter, while Israel has only performed narrowly better than Germany (despite frequently jabbing 10 times as many people per-capita). Granted there are a multitude of factors which can hinder the compatibility of comparing different countries at any given point in time.

I don't think so, but still, your figures are wrong. We have had 94 deaths, inflicted by Spaniards coming over. We THEN had a mini lockdown and are now one of the only, if not THE ONLY country in the world that is covid free.

83 deaths as of February 10th, to be clear.

Feb 10th there were 85 deaths mainly in care homes where it swept through like fire as it has in every care home everywhere.

To be clear again I'm not attempting to cast judgement on Gibraltar. What I find unusual is the timing of that surge in deaths in relation to the jab rollout. If that coincided with a surge of incoming travel from Spain that could very well have been a factor, but we're nonetheless told this jab is supposed to be providing protection.

https://www.devonlive.com/news/devon-news/nine-covid-19-deaths-exmouth-5156936

This is a care home which had reportedly not suffered any Covid cases throughout the entire pandemic by the time the jab was rolled out to all of its residents in January. Yet it is sadly reported that between the first detection of a Covid case in February and March 12th the home has lost nearly a 3rd of its residents.

This is a good point that has not been properly addressed so far as I'm aware and I follow the local news. The only suggestion that I've seen is that they hadn't been vaccinated long enough to build up immunity or were old so it didn't work as well. Not adequate explanations and then there's the question of how it got in.

[toshes mate]

I believe it was reported on Friday that police had arrested two members of the care home staff on suspicion of wilful neglect.  A report (Telegraph?) also suggested a number of care home staff had tested positive.  It should be noted that vaccination does not guarantee safety either from infection, ability to infect, illness or fatality as blingo stated earlier.   Had the care home staff and residents all been vaccinated and 'immunity safe by time expired since vaccination' would the same incident have been possible?  It is a discussion point at the very least.

[Holders]

I believe it was reported on Friday that police had arrested two members of the care home staff on suspicion of wilful neglect.  A report (Telegraph?) also suggested a number of care home staff had tested positive.  It should be noted that vaccination does not guarantee safety either from infection, ability to infect, illness or fatality as blingo stated earlier.   Had the care home staff and residents all been vaccinated and 'immunity safe by time expired since vaccination' would the same incident have been possible?  It is a discussion point at the very least.

I missed that Friday report. All of this is the more shocking as they'd avoided infection up to then.

The last point is the key and bears deep investigation for its wider relevance.

[MikeTheCubed]

I believe it was reported on Friday that police had arrested two members of the care home staff on suspicion of wilful neglect.  A report (Telegraph?) also suggested a number of care home staff had tested positive.  It should be noted that vaccination does not guarantee safety either from infection, ability to infect, illness or fatality as blingo stated earlier.   Had the care home staff and residents all been vaccinated and 'immunity safe by time expired since vaccination' would the same incident have been possible?  It is a discussion point at the very least.

I missed that Friday report. All of this is the more shocking as they'd avoided infection up to then.

The care home being investigated by police is Holmsley Care Home. The article was primarily reporting on Brandon House, a different care home.

[Holders]

I believe it was reported on Friday that police had arrested two members of the care home staff on suspicion of wilful neglect.  A report (Telegraph?) also suggested a number of care home staff had tested positive.  It should be noted that vaccination does not guarantee safety either from infection, ability to infect, illness or fatality as blingo stated earlier.   Had the care home staff and residents all been vaccinated and 'immunity safe by time expired since vaccination' would the same incident have been possible?  It is a discussion point at the very least.

I missed that Friday report. All of this is the more shocking as they'd avoided infection up to then.

The care home being investigated by police is Holmsley Care Home. The article was primarily reporting on Brandon House, a different care home.

Holmsley, Sidmouth not Brandon, Exmouth - thanks for the clarification. Certainly the senior staff at Brandon seemed gutted it had got in after their clean bill earlier. I imagine the police involvement is unauthorised contact not permitted under the regime but had missed that report.

[love4ffc]

Here in Georgia USA the vaccine is now available to anyone over the age of 16.  This is due to a good portion of the population in this state not willing to get the vaccine.  Sad in my view but good for my wife and me.  The wife got her first jab today and I will be getting my tomorrow, today for most reading this.  Really looking forward to getting my shot.   :yay:

[Holders]

Here in Georgia USA the vaccine is now available to anyone over the age of 16.  This is due to a good portion of the population in this state not willing to get the vaccine.  Sad in my view but good for my wife and me.  The wife got her first jab today and I will be getting my tomorrow, today for most reading this.  Really looking forward to getting my shot.   :yay:

Good for you but regrettable overall. What do you put it down to and is the resistance in any particular demographic or grouping?

[Milo]

Which vaccine is it in the US?

[JoelH5]

Which vaccine is it in the US?

Pfizer, Moderna and the J&J 1 dose

[cottage expat]

Here in Georgia USA the vaccine is now available to anyone over the age of 16.  This is due to a good portion of the population in this state not willing to get the vaccine.  Sad in my view but good for my wife and me.  The wife got her first jab today and I will be getting my tomorrow, today for most reading this.  Really looking forward to getting my shot.   :yay:

Good for you but regrettable overall. What do you put it down to and is the resistance in any particular demographic or grouping?

Poorer, minority communities so far have the lowest vaccination rates. Also, a recent survey found that 46% of male Republican voters said they were not planning to get vaccinated.

[Whitesideup]

My wife and I are in category 5 and can't wait to get it. It's not just important for our protection, we both also see it as a social responsibility.

THIS.

Absolutely.

[Holders]

Here in Georgia USA the vaccine is now available to anyone over the age of 16.  This is due to a good portion of the population in this state not willing to get the vaccine.  Sad in my view but good for my wife and me.  The wife got her first jab today and I will be getting my tomorrow, today for most reading this.  Really looking forward to getting my shot.   :yay:

Good for you but regrettable overall. What do you put it down to and is the resistance in any particular demographic or grouping?

Poorer, minority communities so far have the lowest vaccination rates. Also, a recent survey found that 46% of male Republican voters said they were not planning to get vaccinated.

Pity about the former, not surprising about the latter.

[Logicalman]

Here in Georgia USA the vaccine is now available to anyone over the age of 16.  This is due to a good portion of the population in this state not willing to get the vaccine.  Sad in my view but good for my wife and me.  The wife got her first jab today and I will be getting my tomorrow, today for most reading this.  Really looking forward to getting my shot.   :yay:

Just got my second Moderna jab last Friday.

No noticeable side-effects for either outside of injection-site soreness.