So I guess this means the Burnley games off as well then

[MikeTheCubed]

On a somewhat different tangent to the doom mongering that rampantly permeates the mainstream media, the number of UK tests per day skyrocketed above 500,000 just before Christmas, having only relatively recently surpassed 400,000 a day.

Naturally if more tests are conducted there will be more positive (and a certain percentage of false positive) cases, it wouldn't necessarily mean that there's been a rise in infections. The number of tests per confirmed case appears to have been relatively stable since mid October.

On a personal note I've had immediate family members go for a test before Christmas simply as a sensible precaution prior to meeting family. Not everybody who goes for a test is necessarily doing so because they have symptoms.

[Plodder]

Post of the day. I think the message will be ramped up now starting with a more robust line on physical distancing replacing the ever so p.c 'social distancing if you don't mind that would be awfully nice of you' stance we currently have. Personally I am going to take up the option of punching the lights out of anybody who tells me this is all a conspiracy, control measure, a bit like flu or indeed that they are immune and don't need a mask. There is an interview with a doctor on five live this morning now a BBC catch up podcast that should be made compulsory listening.

My mother, who had underlying health problems, died of pneumonia (attributed cause) as a result of catching a cold. I think it is entirely reasonable to state that Covid-19 is a "a bit like flu" in that sense - low mortality rates, but both are potentially deadly to anyone, especially to those with other health problems including the very elderly.  The question is to what extent you take preventative measures, based on judging the risk and weighing the consequences.  In the case of flu, we vaccinate the most vulnerable and carry on normal life, based on the assessment that stronger preventative measures would lead to worse consequences overall.  In the case of Covid-19, we have concluded (rightly, in my opinion) that we have to do something beyond the normal to limit the spread, particularly in terms of much better hygiene and physical spacing, and elements of which should remain in place to counter all infectious illnesses long after the currently high levels of Covid-19 subside to "acceptable" levels and we resume the way we lived until last spring. (For example, more assiduousness in handwashing and avoiding overcrowding on trains and in pubs, maybe masks on public transport). At the moment, I think continuing Premier League football is a small risk outweighed by the benefit to people's psychological state.  However, "punching my lights out" if I were to write that Covid-19 is in one sense like flu (as far as we can tell, more infectious, but about the same mortality rate and about the same rate for long term complications) is not much of a thoughtful or constructive contribution, and is unlikely to help persuade the extremists (e.g. those who are against all vaccinations or who think it is a conspiracy) that they are underestimating the seriousness of Covid-19.

[mrmicawbers]

On a somewhat different tangent to the doom mongering that rampantly permeates the mainstream media, the number of UK tests per day skyrocketed above 500,000 just before Christmas, having only relatively recently surpassed 400,000 a day.

Naturally if more tests are conducted there will be more positive (and a certain percentage of false positive) cases, it wouldn't necessarily mean that there's been a rise in infections. The number of tests per confirmed case appears to have been relatively stable since mid October.

On a personal note I've had immediate family members go for a test before Christmas simply as a sensible precaution prior to meeting family. Not everybody who goes for a test is necessarily doing so because they have symptoms.

The important numbers are those who are in hospital and the death rate sadly rising daily and will likely continue for a while.

[ScalleysDad]

Post of the day. I think the message will be ramped up now starting with a more robust line on physical distancing replacing the ever so p.c 'social distancing if you don't mind that would be awfully nice of you' stance we currently have. Personally I am going to take up the option of punching the lights out of anybody who tells me this is all a conspiracy, control measure, a bit like flu or indeed that they are immune and don't need a mask. There is an interview with a doctor on five live this morning now a BBC catch up podcast that should be made compulsory listening.

My mother, who had underlying health problems, died of pneumonia (attributed cause) as a result of catching a cold. I think it is entirely reasonable to state that Covid-19 is a "a bit like flu" in that sense - low mortality rates, but both are potentially deadly to anyone, especially to those with other health problems including the very elderly.  The question is to what extent you take preventative measures, based on judging the risk and weighing the consequences.  In the case of flu, we vaccinate the most vulnerable and carry on normal life, based on the assessment that stronger preventative measures would lead to worse consequences overall.  In the case of Covid-19, we have concluded (rightly, in my opinion) that we have to do something beyond the normal to limit the spread, particularly in terms of much better hygiene and physical spacing, and elements of which should remain in place to counter all infectious illnesses long after the currently high levels of Covid-19 subside to "acceptable" levels and we resume the way we lived until last spring. (For example, more assiduousness in handwashing and avoiding overcrowding on trains and in pubs, maybe masks on public transport). At the moment, I think continuing Premier League football is a small risk outweighed by the benefit to people's psychological state.  However, "punching my lights out" if I were to write that Covid-19 is in one sense like flu (as far as we can tell, more infectious, but about the same mortality rate and about the same rate for long term complications) is not much of a thoughtful or constructive contribution, and is unlikely to help persuade the extremists (e.g. those who are against all vaccinations or who think it is a conspiracy) that they are underestimating the seriousness of Covid-19.

My condolences. Okay I will rephrase "punching lights out" to vigorously debating the pro and cons of opting to not wear a mask or observe physical distancing in the immediate vicinity of my immediate family at this current time. That will include the same people who walk in the middle of the path and absolutely refuse to give a bit or wait a moment for me to pass with the new grandchild. Of course it's only right that I take steps to walk in the middle of the road so that they can retain their smug stance of being untouchable and invincible. Of course I'm angry!
I think the 'extremists' may yet be persuaded if they catch up with the 5 live interview from this mornings news programme.

[JimOG]

I am not making light of covid in any way and it's clearly a killer however people who would have died anyway but have covid are in the numbers.  Likely covid bought forward deaths but not necessarily the main reason.   It sounds crude but covid is not the only illness causing these deaths.  Complicated.  Roll on the vaccine and RIP those who we have lost.

Fair. When can I get my shot? 2022? That's for another thread.

Whilst there's some truth in this - Covid 19 is an efficient finisher of the vulnerable - it is as you say not that simple. Excess deaths - the number of deaths above a 5 year average - stands at 82,000 plus. This isn't just another bad flu year

[Statto]

I am not making light of covid in any way and it's clearly a killer however people who would have died anyway but have covid are in the numbers.  Likely covid bought forward deaths but not necessarily the main reason.   It sounds crude but covid is not the only illness causing these deaths.  Complicated.  Roll on the vaccine and RIP those who we have lost.

Fair. When can I get my shot? 2022? That's for another thread.

Whilst there's some truth in this - Covid 19 is an efficient finisher of the vulnerable - it is as you say not that simple. Excess deaths - the number of deaths above a 5 year average - stands at 82,000 plus. This isn't just another bad flu year

For context, the particularly cold winter of 2017/18 led to 50,100 excess deaths. 

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2018/nov/30/excess-winter-deaths-in-england-and-wales-highest-since-1976

[MikeTheCubed]

On a somewhat different tangent to the doom mongering that rampantly permeates the mainstream media, the number of UK tests per day skyrocketed above 500,000 just before Christmas, having only relatively recently surpassed 400,000 a day.

Naturally if more tests are conducted there will be more positive (and a certain percentage of false positive) cases, it wouldn't necessarily mean that there's been a rise in infections. The number of tests per confirmed case appears to have been relatively stable since mid October.

On a personal note I've had immediate family members go for a test before Christmas simply as a sensible precaution prior to meeting family. Not everybody who goes for a test is necessarily doing so because they have symptoms.

The important numbers are those who are in hospital and the death rate sadly rising daily and will likely continue for a while.

I agree that those numbers are far more important. There is however a significant lag with death statistics from all causes in order to put it in to perspective, and it's important to keep in mind that the NHS is usually in a borderline crisis this time of year. Furthermore the statistics of ICU bed occupancy are somewhat murky; while there does appear to be an increase in cumulative beds occupied compared to previous years there also appears to be a higher number of beds available; so the percentage may actually be lower. Another added complication is postponement of treatment, which impacts in multiple ways.

When I see news reports about the increase of cases without mention of the increase in testing, even though that is a much less relevant statistic it still puts a dent in my trust of the overall story. If there was greater clarity in the reporting of cases I'd be more willing to accept the reporting of hospitalisations & fatalities.

[rebel]

I am not making light of covid in any way and it's clearly a killer however people who would have died anyway but have covid are in the numbers.  Likely covid bought forward deaths but not necessarily the main reason.   It sounds crude but covid is not the only illness causing these deaths.  Complicated.  Roll on the vaccine and RIP those who we have lost.

Fair. When can I get my shot? 2022? That's for another thread.

Whilst there's some truth in this - Covid 19 is an efficient finisher of the vulnerable - it is as you say not that simple. Excess deaths - the number of deaths above a 5 year average - stands at 82,000 plus. This isn't just another bad flu year

For context, the particularly cold winter of 2017/18 led to 50,100 excess deaths. 

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2018/nov/30/excess-winter-deaths-in-england-and-wales-highest-since-1976

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/bulletins/excesswintermortalityinenglandandwales/2017to2018provisionaland2016to2017final

[bobby01]

Having read through these I am not saying what is right or wrong here. All I will say is my 91 year old mother had a fall at home and was temporarily unable to look after herself. She took a COVID test, negative , and was admitted to a respite hospital , she caught a chest infection and was tested again, negative, and was sent to a geriatric ward on the 20th and was being treated with antibiotics and some oxygen, on the 23rd she had improved so they were going to return her to the respite hospital. COVID test before she was due to go came up as positive. She then deteriorated and very sadly passed yesterday at 0300. We kept her safe for 9 months only for her to catch it in hospital.

All I ask is when you quote your facts and figures bear in mind COVID kills, she lived on her own was active and well for her age. It is heartbreaking to lose someone, even more so when you are not allowed to even see and support them.

COVID is not our usual disagreement over Cairney etc but is real and yes the government have probably made mistakes but if we all do our bit and follow the rules we may save some lives, I do not want anyone else to be crying like a baby when they write something like this..

Be safe, take care.

[ScalleysDad]

Having read through these I am not saying what is right or wrong here. All I will say is my 91 year old mother had a fall at home and was temporarily unable to look after herself. She took a COVID test, negative , and was admitted to a respite hospital , she caught a chest infection and was tested again, negative, and was sent to a geriatric ward on the 20th and was being treated with antibiotics and some oxygen, on the 23rd she had improved so they were going to return her to the respite hospital. COVID test before she was due to go came up as positive. She then deteriorated and very sadly passed yesterday at 0300. We kept her safe for 9 months only for her to catch it in hospital.

All I ask is when you quote your facts and figures bear in mind COVID kills, she lived on her own was active and well for her age. It is heartbreaking to lose someone, even more so when you are not allowed to even see and support them.

COVID is not our usual disagreement over Cairney etc but is real and yes the government have probably made mistakes but if we all do our bit and follow the rules we may save some lives, I do not want anyone else to be crying like a baby when they write something like this..

Be safe, take care.

So sorry to hear that news. Our condolences.

Probably an appropriate time to curtail this one as Burnley away has become sidetracked and somewhat irrelevant with this post from bobby. Start a new thread perhaps?

[JimOG]

Having read through these I am not saying what is right or wrong here. All I will say is my 91 year old mother had a fall at home and was temporarily unable to look after herself. She took a COVID test, negative , and was admitted to a respite hospital , she caught a chest infection and was tested again, negative, and was sent to a geriatric ward on the 20th and was being treated with antibiotics and some oxygen, on the 23rd she had improved so they were going to return her to the respite hospital. COVID test before she was due to go came up as positive. She then deteriorated and very sadly passed yesterday at 0300. We kept her safe for 9 months only for her to catch it in hospital.

All I ask is when you quote your facts and figures bear in mind COVID kills, she lived on her own was active and well for her age. It is heartbreaking to lose someone, even more so when you are not allowed to even see and support them.

COVID is not our usual disagreement over Cairney etc but is real and yes the government have probably made mistakes but if we all do our bit and follow the rules we may save some lives, I do not want anyone else to be crying like a baby when they write something like this..

Be safe, take care.

Really sorry to hear this....

[RaySmith]

Having read through these I am not saying what is right or wrong here. All I will say is my 91 year old mother had a fall at home and was temporarily unable to look after herself. She took a COVID test, negative , and was admitted to a respite hospital , she caught a chest infection and was tested again, negative, and was sent to a geriatric ward on the 20th and was being treated with antibiotics and some oxygen, on the 23rd she had improved so they were going to return her to the respite hospital. COVID test before she was due to go came up as positive. She then deteriorated and very sadly passed yesterday at 0300. We kept her safe for 9 months only for her to catch it in hospital.

All I ask is when you quote your facts and figures bear in mind COVID kills, she lived on her own was active and well for her age. It is heartbreaking to lose someone, even more so when you are not allowed to even see and support them.

COVID is not our usual disagreement over Cairney etc but is real and yes the government have probably made mistakes but if we all do our bit and follow the rules we may save some lives, I do not want anyone else to be crying like a baby when they write something like this..

Be safe, take care.

So sorry to hear that news. Our condolences.

Probably an appropriate time to curtail this one as Burnley away has become sidetracked and somewhat irrelevant with this post from bobby. Start a new thread perhaps?

Very  sorry to hear this.

[mrmicawbers]

My condolences Bobby.

[Baszab]

I guess we haven't all read about the "Kyle Walker party" rumours involving FFC players
If true, which  I really hope not, it's bad news

[AnOldBrownie]

I guess we haven't all read about the "Kyle Walker party" rumours involving FFC players
If true, which  I really hope not, it's bad news

If anyone attended...10 days self isolation...two consecutive negative test (like Scott just did) then we're back to games.   I'm expecting Kongolo and Tete to be available by then.

[AnOldBrownie]

Having read through these I am not saying what is right or wrong here. All I will say is my 91 year old mother had a fall at home and was temporarily unable to look after herself. She took a COVID test, negative , and was admitted to a respite hospital , she caught a chest infection and was tested again, negative, and was sent to a geriatric ward on the 20th and was being treated with antibiotics and some oxygen, on the 23rd she had improved so they were going to return her to the respite hospital. COVID test before she was due to go came up as positive. She then deteriorated and very sadly passed yesterday at 0300. We kept her safe for 9 months only for her to catch it in hospital.

All I ask is when you quote your facts and figures bear in mind COVID kills, she lived on her own was active and well for her age. It is heartbreaking to lose someone, even more so when you are not allowed to even see and support them.

COVID is not our usual disagreement over Cairney etc but is real and yes the government have probably made mistakes but if we all do our bit and follow the rules we may save some lives, I do not want anyone else to be crying like a baby when they write something like this..

Be safe, take care.

Oh man.   We're all Fulham family members here.   My heart goes out to you and your family.   Take care.

[rebel]

Having read through these I am not saying what is right or wrong here. All I will say is my 91 year old mother had a fall at home and was temporarily unable to look after herself. She took a COVID test, negative , and was admitted to a respite hospital , she caught a chest infection and was tested again, negative, and was sent to a geriatric ward on the 20th and was being treated with antibiotics and some oxygen, on the 23rd she had improved so they were going to return her to the respite hospital. COVID test before she was due to go came up as positive. She then deteriorated and very sadly passed yesterday at 0300. We kept her safe for 9 months only for her to catch it in hospital.

All I ask is when you quote your facts and figures bear in mind COVID kills, she lived on her own was active and well for her age. It is heartbreaking to lose someone, even more so when you are not allowed to even see and support them.

COVID is not our usual disagreement over Cairney etc but is real and yes the government have probably made mistakes but if we all do our bit and follow the rules we may save some lives, I do not want anyone else to be crying like a baby when they write something like this..

Be safe, take care.

Condolences Bobby, take care.

[sunburywhite]

My condolences to you too Bobby

We lost our mother in April, aged 88, from a degenerative lung disease but were lucky to be able to spend the last couple of days in a hospice with her. Thankfully she didnt get Covid.

She would have hated being stuck indoors all through summer and not being able to see her wonderful neighbours, terrible time to be old

[perry geyton]

Me thinks mother nature getting her own back,too many folk on the planet,rain forests and others been destroyed for greed.
Oceans polluted to f***....No I'm not crazy🤔

OR quite simply it's the CCP !!!

[perry geyton]

Having read through these I am not saying what is right or wrong here. All I will say is my 91 year old mother had a fall at home and was temporarily unable to look after herself. She took a COVID test, negative , and was admitted to a respite hospital , she caught a chest infection and was tested again, negative, and was sent to a geriatric ward on the 20th and was being treated with antibiotics and some oxygen, on the 23rd she had improved so they were going to return her to the respite hospital. COVID test before she was due to go came up as positive. She then deteriorated and very sadly passed yesterday at 0300. We kept her safe for 9 months only for her to catch it in hospital.

All I ask is when you quote your facts and figures bear in mind COVID kills, she lived on her own was active and well for her age. It is heartbreaking to lose someone, even more so when you are not allowed to even see and support them.

COVID is not our usual disagreement over Cairney etc but is real and yes the government have probably made mistakes but if we all do our bit and follow the rules we may save some lives, I do not want anyone else to be crying like a baby when they write something like this..

Be safe, take care.

Sorry To hear about your mum mate 🙏🏼