Cairney’s pass to Lukic

[Sammyffc]

Sublime !!!

I've been saying it for a long time, I'm not sure how Perreira "who's been largely invisible this season" starts week in week out over him ?

Was typical Tom Cairney the "Glenn Hoddle" of Fulham. A long time servant of this club is the playmaker we need but is sometimes overlooked to the likes of headless DeCordova-Reid. Lukic is also not good enough for the first team and should have scored.

BDR's been brilliant versatile and done such a job in so many positions our current Odoi in many ways so can't knock him cos he gives a 100% always

Perreira on the other hand at 40 minutes last night I had to double check the team sheet to see if he was playing !!! I'm not joking

When TC came on the pitch we were a different team, yeah he's older, yeah he's more vulnerable to getting injured, yeah he's left footed but yeah he has more quality ten fold

More quality ten fold ? come on... even the most loyal cairney fans would struggle to write that sentence without smirking

[Londonfranky]

Carney does seem a bit of marmite player, I think I would sooner go on Marco's opinion I don't think it has anything to do with Perreira being Marco's signing, maybe Perreira hasn't quite recovered from his injury, I do think that Carney has struggled in the the premiership in the two previous promotions,

[perry geyton]

Sublime !!!

I've been saying it for a long time, I'm not sure how Perreira "who's been largely invisible this season" starts week in week out over him ?

Was typical Tom Cairney the "Glenn Hoddle" of Fulham. A long time servant of this club is the playmaker we need but is sometimes overlooked to the likes of headless DeCordova-Reid. Lukic is also not good enough for the first team and should have scored.

BDR's been brilliant versatile and done such a job in so many positions our current Odoi in many ways so can't knock him cos he gives a 100% always

Perreira on the other hand at 40 minutes last night I had to double check the team sheet to see if he was playing !!! I'm not joking

When TC came on the pitch we were a different team, yeah he's older, yeah he's more vulnerable to getting injured, yeah he's left footed but yeah he has more quality ten fold

More quality ten fold ? come on... even the most loyal cairney fans would struggle to write that sentence without smirking

I smirk every time I read one of your posts, literally p myself

[Twig]

Sublime !!!

I've been saying it for a long time, I'm not sure how Perreira "who's been largely invisible this season" starts week in week out over him ?

Was typical Tom Cairney the "Glenn Hoddle" of Fulham. A long time servant of this club is the playmaker we need but is sometimes overlooked to the likes of headless DeCordova-Reid. Lukic is also not good enough for the first team and should have scored.

BDR's been brilliant versatile and done such a job in so many positions our current Odoi in many ways so can't knock him cos he gives a 100% always

Perreira on the other hand at 40 minutes last night I had to double check the team sheet to see if he was playing !!! I'm not joking

When TC came on the pitch we were a different team, yeah he's older, yeah he's more vulnerable to getting injured, yeah he's left footed but yeah he has more quality ten fold

More quality ten fold ? come on... even the most loyal cairney fans would struggle to write that sentence without smirking

In terms of footballing quality I tend to agree. Ok, obviously not literally tenfold but so obviously more skilled, talented and effective.

[blingo]

How c

Now waiting on Bongo to harp in with his 2 cents worth on how crap Cairney is
[/quote


How could I destroy the illusions of your manaffair with Thomas Piri?

You know its just time before he's finished

[cookieg]

One pass doesn't make a season. Silva knows why he doesn't pick TC.

[simplyfulham]

Data wise, there is not a single stat where Tom is better than Andreas, at anything at all in their premier league games.

This seems like a silly thing to say when it's patently not true.

Not really sure where you're coming from.

[Sammyffc]

Data wise, there is not a single stat where Tom is better than Andreas, at anything at all in their premier league games.

This seems like a silly thing to say when it's patently not true.

Not really sure where you're coming from.

Ok, show me what isn't true? . you can just use this - https://www.premierleague.com/stats/player-comparison

Pass completion? is that it? Not hard when 622 of his passes in the league have gone backwards, compared to Andreas's 378 backwards.

[Sting of the North]

Data wise, there is not a single stat where Tom is better than Andreas, at anything at all in their premier league games.

This seems like a silly thing to say when it's patently not true.

Not really sure where you're coming from.

Ok, show me what isn't true? . you can just use this - https://www.premierleague.com/stats/player-comparison

Pass completion? is that it? Not hard when 622 of his passes in the league have gone backwards, compared to Andreas's 378 backwards.

And from those very simple stats it is easy to see that you were completely wrong, even when you are moving the goalposts once again. Clearly no use trying to have a serious discussion with you.

[simplyfulham]

Data wise, there is not a single stat where Tom is better than Andreas, at anything at all in their premier league games.

This seems like a silly thing to say when it's patently not true.

Not really sure where you're coming from.

Ok, show me what isn't true? . you can just use this - https://www.premierleague.com/stats/player-comparison

Pass completion? is that it? Not hard when 622 of his passes in the league have gone backwards, compared to Andreas's 378 backwards.

Ah sure.. I mean if you don't care about context.

In which case you can probably just ignore that fact that per 90 mins, TC makes twice as many passes as AP..

TC: 57 p90
AP: 23 p90

Or the fact in terms of total progressive distance towards the oppo goal, TC is almost double again..

TC: 220 yards p90
AP: 141 yards p90

Or the fact he creates more shooting chances (without even tacking set pieces)..

TC: 4.10 p90
AP: 3.94 p90

Or even that TC defensively gets better numbers according to the 'data'. For combined tackles + interceptions..

TC: 2   p90
AP: 0.8 p90

But if you want to say stuff like 'Data wise, there is not a single stat where Tom is better than Andreas..' then crack on guess?


https://fbref.com/en/squads/fd962109/2022-2023/Fulham-Stats#all_stats_standard

[Chutney]

Sublime !!!

I've been saying it for a long time, I'm not sure how Perreira "who's been largely invisible this season" starts week in week out over him ?

Because everytime tom starts he is crap or gets injured. He is great at coming on with 10/15 minutes left, thats it. he has proven that time and time again.

Sure, you are o course correct that it is everytime... if we disregard the times when he isn't crap or gets injured.

Which other performance this season or last season would you say he deserved to start ahead of Andreas? He literally made a pass last night.

Data wise, there is not a single stat where Tom is better than Andreas, at anything at all in their premier league games.

Which stats are you using for this? because opta stats suggest Cairney is better than Andreas at an awful lot based on last season's premier league games?

PER 90 Stats - https://ibb.co/F5ScTWv

[Chutney]

Data wise, there is not a single stat where Tom is better than Andreas, at anything at all in their premier league games.

This seems like a silly thing to say when it's patently not true.

Not really sure where you're coming from.

Ok, show me what isn't true? . you can just use this - https://www.premierleague.com/stats/player-comparison

Pass completion? is that it? Not hard when 622 of his passes in the league have gone backwards, compared to Andreas's 378 backwards.

Cairney Makes 15.7 successful forward passes per 90 to Andreas's 9...

[Sammyffc]

Data wise, there is not a single stat where Tom is better than Andreas, at anything at all in their premier league games.

This seems like a silly thing to say when it's patently not true.

Not really sure where you're coming from.

Ok, show me what isn't true? . you can just use this - https://www.premierleague.com/stats/player-comparison

Pass completion? is that it? Not hard when 622 of his passes in the league have gone backwards, compared to Andreas's 378 backwards.

Ah sure.. I mean if you don't care about context.

In which case you can probably just ignore that fact that per 90 mins, TC makes twice as many passes as AP..

TC: 57 p90
AP: 23 p90

Or the fact in terms of total progressive distance towards the oppo goal, TC is almost double again..

TC: 220 yards p90
AP: 141 yards p90

Or the fact he creates more shooting chances (without even tacking set pieces)..

TC: 4.10 p90
AP: 3.94 p90

Or even that TC defensively gets better numbers according to the 'data'. For combined tackles + interceptions..

TC: 2   p90
AP: 0.8 p90

But if you want to say stuff like 'Data wise, there is not a single stat where Tom is better than Andreas..' then crack on guess?


https://fbref.com/en/squads/fd962109/2022-2023/Fulham-Stats#all_stats_standard

Fair.

how many passes in those 90 minutes are forward, which they should be playing as a CAM.

Forward - AP - 637  TC - 572
Backwards - AP - 378 TC - 622

Overall in the league they have

Big chances created

AP - 16 TC - 9


You said more shooting chances? but what about ..

Shots on target

AP - 41   TC - 15

Shots

AP 111 - TC - 67

Assists

AP - 10. TC - 2



Tom basically gets more successful passes because he passes back to our defense most of the time.

[Chutney]

Data wise, there is not a single stat where Tom is better than Andreas, at anything at all in their premier league games.

This seems like a silly thing to say when it's patently not true.

Not really sure where you're coming from.

Ok, show me what isn't true? . you can just use this - https://www.premierleague.com/stats/player-comparison

Pass completion? is that it? Not hard when 622 of his passes in the league have gone backwards, compared to Andreas's 378 backwards.

Ah sure.. I mean if you don't care about context.

In which case you can probably just ignore that fact that per 90 mins, TC makes twice as many passes as AP..

TC: 57 p90
AP: 23 p90

Or the fact in terms of total progressive distance towards the oppo goal, TC is almost double again..

TC: 220 yards p90
AP: 141 yards p90

Or the fact he creates more shooting chances (without even tacking set pieces)..

TC: 4.10 p90
AP: 3.94 p90

Or even that TC defensively gets better numbers according to the 'data'. For combined tackles + interceptions..

TC: 2   p90
AP: 0.8 p90

But if you want to say stuff like 'Data wise, there is not a single stat where Tom is better than Andreas..' then crack on guess?


https://fbref.com/en/squads/fd962109/2022-2023/Fulham-Stats#all_stats_standard

Fair.

how many passes in those 90 minutes are forward, which they should be playing as a CAM.

Forward - AP - 637  TC - 572
Backwards - AP - 378 TC - 622

Overall in the league they have

Big chances created

AP - 16 TC - 9


You said more shooting chances? but what about ..

Shots on target

AP - 41   TC - 15

Shots

AP 111 - TC - 67

Assists

AP - 10. TC - 2



Tom basically gets more successful passes because he passes back to our defense most of the time.

Except that per 90, last season, Cairney made 15.7 successful forward passes, Andreas Made 9.

[simplyfulham]

Data wise, there is not a single stat where Tom is better than Andreas, at anything at all in their premier league games.

This seems like a silly thing to say when it's patently not true.

Not really sure where you're coming from.

Ok, show me what isn't true? . you can just use this - https://www.premierleague.com/stats/player-comparison

Pass completion? is that it? Not hard when 622 of his passes in the league have gone backwards, compared to Andreas's 378 backwards.

Ah sure.. I mean if you don't care about context.

In which case you can probably just ignore that fact that per 90 mins, TC makes twice as many passes as AP..

TC: 57 p90
AP: 23 p90

Or the fact in terms of total progressive distance towards the oppo goal, TC is almost double again..

TC: 220 yards p90
AP: 141 yards p90

Or the fact he creates more shooting chances (without even tacking set pieces)..

TC: 4.10 p90
AP: 3.94 p90

Or even that TC defensively gets better numbers according to the 'data'. For combined tackles + interceptions..

TC: 2   p90
AP: 0.8 p90

But if you want to say stuff like 'Data wise, there is not a single stat where Tom is better than Andreas..' then crack on guess?


https://fbref.com/en/squads/fd962109/2022-2023/Fulham-Stats#all_stats_standard

Fair.

how many passes in those 90 minutes are forward, which they should be playing as a CAM.

Forward - AP - 637  TC - 572
Backwards - AP - 378 TC - 622

Overall in the league they have

Big chances created

AP - 16 TC - 9


You said more shooting chances? but what about ..

Shots on target

AP - 41   TC - 15

Shots

AP 111 - TC - 67

Assists

AP - 10. TC - 2



Tom basically gets more successful passes because he passes back to our defense most of the time.

Except that per 90, last season, Cairney made 15.7 successful forward passes, Andreas Made 9.

Yes as Chutney has pointed out.. Andreas played about 2.5 x more mins than Cairney. If you're doing a straight shot comparison then AP will get bigger numbers almost all the time.

But that's like picking a fight with a 6 yo. I'd expect you to win as you (presumably) weigh significantly more.

Look at the breakdown of those events broken down per 90 mins played, and the picture shifts.

how many passes in those 90 minutes are forward, which they should be playing as a CAM.

Forward - AP - 637  TC - 572
Backwards - AP - 378 TC - 622

This is just wrong though, they are the Premier League's numbers for total passes from all seasons in the prem, going back to Tom's prem debut 13 years ago. Which doesn't seem helpful at this point.

I've already given you the progressive distance figure. If Tom is passing back more often than AP, he's more than making up for it by;

a) not giving it away as much, and

b) when he is playing forwards, making passes that progress the team further forward than Andreas

[Cobh Fulham Fan]

Forget for a moment about player stats, and I favour neither one over the other in this case. what really amuses me here is the idea that Silva might favour one over the other simply because he had involvement in that players recruitment.

so the theory goes that Silva would deliberately risk losing a game and his reputation in order to convince his boss that he's sticking by his original choice/recruit. And he will stubbornly stick with that approach, even if it means he might give himself a name as a losing coach that might also lead his club into a relegation battle at the end of the season?

sorry now guys, but thats a conspiracy too far for me. you might as well just say that Silva has no real interest in Fulham, or that he had advised Mitro to take the Saudi money and run.

whatever you do guys - dont consider the simple possibility that Silva might favour some players over others for particular games because he see they have particular attributes.  Thats a managers job, to manage and WIN games.

[perry geyton]

Stars aside

I find it strange that certain sectors of our support have it in for Tom so heavily,

Personally I've always enjoyed watching us more when Toms on the pitch, it's as simple as that,

Either way that pass to Lukic was top top draw, I've seen nothing like that out of Perreira this season or previous

Stats or no stats

[perry geyton]

Forget for a moment about player stats, and I favour neither one over the other in this case. what really amuses me here is the idea that Silva might favour one over the other simply because he had involvement in that players recruitment.

so the theory goes that Silva would deliberately risk losing a game and his reputation in order to convince his boss that he's sticking by his original choice/recruit. And he will stubbornly stick with that approach, even if it means he might give himself a name as a losing coach that might also lead his club into a relegation battle at the end of the season?

sorry now guys, but thats a conspiracy too far for me. you might as well just say that Silva has no real interest in Fulham, or that he had advised Mitro to take the Saudi money and run.

whatever you do guys - dont consider the simple possibility that Silva might favour some players over others for particular games because he see they have particular attributes.  Thats a managers job, to manage and WIN games.

So explain Scott Parker dropping Mitrovic then for Cav. I know he didn't sign him but he just favored him which was clearly wrong,
Ranieri too was making strange decisions, barely played Tom either in favor of players far less effective

[Cobh Fulham Fan]

I agree it was a top drawer pass and should be recognised so by all Fulham supporters!

[Cobh Fulham Fan]

Forget for a moment about player stats, and I favour neither one over the other in this case. what really amuses me here is the idea that Silva might favour one over the other simply because he had involvement in that players recruitment.

so the theory goes that Silva would deliberately risk losing a game and his reputation in order to convince his boss that he's


 sticking by his original choice/recruit. And he will stubbornly stick with that approach, even if it means he might give himself a name as a losing coach that might also lead his club into a relegation battle at the end of the season?

sorry now guys, but thats a conspiracy too far for me. you might as well just say that Silva has no real interest in Fulham, or that he had advised Mitro to take the Saudi money and run.

whatever you do guys - dont consider the simple possibility that Silva might favour some players over others for particular games because he see they have particular attributes.  Thats a managers job, to manage and WIN games.

So explain Scott Parker dropping Mitrovic then for Cav. I know he didn't sign him but he just favored him which was clearly wrong,
Ranieri too was making strange decisions, barely played Tom either in favour of players far less effective

Sorry now Perry, but the last person youll find me defending is Scott Parker. I was specifically talking about Marco Silva.
If you are trying to argue that Silva compares to Parker, well then we are into a whole debate of another kind.

incidentally, I agree with most of your arguments about TC, its the bit about the notion that Silva would risk throwing games, that I have a problem with.