Cairney’s pass to Lukic

[simplyfulham]

Yeah I agree with Cobh.

Marco is picking the team he thinks is gonna give him the best chance of a result. He's not going with players purely because he's been involved with the recruitment or Muniz would be starting more often.

FWIW, I think there are loads of reasonable arguments why Marco would want to start Pereira ahead of TC.  But recruitment and stats are not part of it.

TC still has a lot to offer and gives us a dimension that currently, no other players in the squad can offer.

[Sammyffc]

Data wise, there is not a single stat where Tom is better than Andreas, at anything at all in their premier league games.

This seems like a silly thing to say when it's patently not true.

Not really sure where you're coming from.

Ok, show me what isn't true? . you can just use this - https://www.premierleague.com/stats/player-comparison

Pass completion? is that it? Not hard when 622 of his passes in the league have gone backwards, compared to Andreas's 378 backwards.

Ah sure.. I mean if you don't care about context.

In which case you can probably just ignore that fact that per 90 mins, TC makes twice as many passes as AP..

TC: 57 p90
AP: 23 p90

Or the fact in terms of total progressive distance towards the oppo goal, TC is almost double again..

TC: 220 yards p90
AP: 141 yards p90

Or the fact he creates more shooting chances (without even tacking set pieces)..

TC: 4.10 p90
AP: 3.94 p90

Or even that TC defensively gets better numbers according to the 'data'. For combined tackles + interceptions..

TC: 2   p90
AP: 0.8 p90

But if you want to say stuff like 'Data wise, there is not a single stat where Tom is better than Andreas..' then crack on guess?


https://fbref.com/en/squads/fd962109/2022-2023/Fulham-Stats#all_stats_standard

Fair.

how many passes in those 90 minutes are forward, which they should be playing as a CAM.

Forward - AP - 637  TC - 572
Backwards - AP - 378 TC - 622

Overall in the league they have

Big chances created

AP - 16 TC - 9


You said more shooting chances? but what about ..

Shots on target

AP - 41   TC - 15

Shots

AP 111 - TC - 67

Assists

AP - 10. TC - 2



Tom basically gets more successful passes because he passes back to our defense most of the time.

Except that per 90, last season, Cairney made 15.7 successful forward passes, Andreas Made 9.

Yes as Chutney has pointed out.. Andreas played about 2.5 x more mins than Cairney. If you're doing a straight shot comparison then AP will get bigger numbers almost all the time.

But that's like picking a fight with a 6 yo. I'd expect you to win as you (presumably) weigh significantly more.

Look at the breakdown of those events broken down per 90 mins played, and the picture shifts.

how many passes in those 90 minutes are forward, which they should be playing as a CAM.

Forward - AP - 637  TC - 572
Backwards - AP - 378 TC - 622

This is just wrong though, they are the Premier League's numbers for total passes from all seasons in the prem, going back to Tom's prem debut 13 years ago. Which doesn't seem helpful at this point.

I've already given you the progressive distance figure. If Tom is passing back more often than AP, he's more than making up for it by;

a) not giving it away as much, and

b) when he is playing forwards, making passes that progress the team further forward than Andreas

It their overall premier league stats which is fair. If you are really sitting there saying he should start over AP when he has TWO assists in 90 appearances in the premier league then i don't know what to say

[simplyfulham]

Data wise, there is not a single stat where Tom is better than Andreas, at anything at all in their premier league games.

This seems like a silly thing to say when it's patently not true.

Not really sure where you're coming from.

Ok, show me what isn't true? . you can just use this - https://www.premierleague.com/stats/player-comparison

Pass completion? is that it? Not hard when 622 of his passes in the league have gone backwards, compared to Andreas's 378 backwards.

Ah sure.. I mean if you don't care about context.

In which case you can probably just ignore that fact that per 90 mins, TC makes twice as many passes as AP..

TC: 57 p90
AP: 23 p90

Or the fact in terms of total progressive distance towards the oppo goal, TC is almost double again..

TC: 220 yards p90
AP: 141 yards p90

Or the fact he creates more shooting chances (without even tacking set pieces)..

TC: 4.10 p90
AP: 3.94 p90

Or even that TC defensively gets better numbers according to the 'data'. For combined tackles + interceptions..

TC: 2   p90
AP: 0.8 p90

But if you want to say stuff like 'Data wise, there is not a single stat where Tom is better than Andreas..' then crack on guess?


https://fbref.com/en/squads/fd962109/2022-2023/Fulham-Stats#all_stats_standard

Fair.

how many passes in those 90 minutes are forward, which they should be playing as a CAM.

Forward - AP - 637  TC - 572
Backwards - AP - 378 TC - 622

Overall in the league they have

Big chances created

AP - 16 TC - 9


You said more shooting chances? but what about ..

Shots on target

AP - 41   TC - 15

Shots

AP 111 - TC - 67

Assists

AP - 10. TC - 2



Tom basically gets more successful passes because he passes back to our defense most of the time.

Except that per 90, last season, Cairney made 15.7 successful forward passes, Andreas Made 9.

Yes as Chutney has pointed out.. Andreas played about 2.5 x more mins than Cairney. If you're doing a straight shot comparison then AP will get bigger numbers almost all the time.

But that's like picking a fight with a 6 yo. I'd expect you to win as you (presumably) weigh significantly more.

Look at the breakdown of those events broken down per 90 mins played, and the picture shifts.

how many passes in those 90 minutes are forward, which they should be playing as a CAM.

Forward - AP - 637  TC - 572
Backwards - AP - 378 TC - 622

This is just wrong though, they are the Premier League's numbers for total passes from all seasons in the prem, going back to Tom's prem debut 13 years ago. Which doesn't seem helpful at this point.

I've already given you the progressive distance figure. If Tom is passing back more often than AP, he's more than making up for it by;

a) not giving it away as much, and

b) when he is playing forwards, making passes that progress the team further forward than Andreas

It their overall premier league stats which is fair. If you are really sitting there saying he should start over AP when he has TWO assists in 90 appearances in the premier league then i don't know what to say

To be honest with you, I didn't really say that. And if I did, I wouldn't be justifying it based on no. of assists as you rightly say.

But just in case, I'll remind you what you said.

Which other performance this season or last season would you say he deserved to start ahead of Andreas? He literally made a pass last night.

Data wise, there is not a single stat where Tom is better than Andreas, at anything at all in their premier league games.

Think we've proven that statement is bollocks now so I'll leave it at that.

[Sammyffc]

Data wise, there is not a single stat where Tom is better than Andreas, at anything at all in their premier league games.

This seems like a silly thing to say when it's patently not true.

Not really sure where you're coming from.

Ok, show me what isn't true? . you can just use this - https://www.premierleague.com/stats/player-comparison

Pass completion? is that it? Not hard when 622 of his passes in the league have gone backwards, compared to Andreas's 378 backwards.

Ah sure.. I mean if you don't care about context.

In which case you can probably just ignore that fact that per 90 mins, TC makes twice as many passes as AP..

TC: 57 p90
AP: 23 p90

Or the fact in terms of total progressive distance towards the oppo goal, TC is almost double again..

TC: 220 yards p90
AP: 141 yards p90

Or the fact he creates more shooting chances (without even tacking set pieces)..

TC: 4.10 p90
AP: 3.94 p90

Or even that TC defensively gets better numbers according to the 'data'. For combined tackles + interceptions..

TC: 2   p90
AP: 0.8 p90

But if you want to say stuff like 'Data wise, there is not a single stat where Tom is better than Andreas..' then crack on guess?


https://fbref.com/en/squads/fd962109/2022-2023/Fulham-Stats#all_stats_standard

Fair.

how many passes in those 90 minutes are forward, which they should be playing as a CAM.

Forward - AP - 637  TC - 572
Backwards - AP - 378 TC - 622

Overall in the league they have

Big chances created

AP - 16 TC - 9


You said more shooting chances? but what about ..

Shots on target

AP - 41   TC - 15

Shots

AP 111 - TC - 67

Assists

AP - 10. TC - 2



Tom basically gets more successful passes because he passes back to our defense most of the time.

Except that per 90, last season, Cairney made 15.7 successful forward passes, Andreas Made 9.

Yes as Chutney has pointed out.. Andreas played about 2.5 x more mins than Cairney. If you're doing a straight shot comparison then AP will get bigger numbers almost all the time.

But that's like picking a fight with a 6 yo. I'd expect you to win as you (presumably) weigh significantly more.

Look at the breakdown of those events broken down per 90 mins played, and the picture shifts.

how many passes in those 90 minutes are forward, which they should be playing as a CAM.

Forward - AP - 637  TC - 572
Backwards - AP - 378 TC - 622

This is just wrong though, they are the Premier League's numbers for total passes from all seasons in the prem, going back to Tom's prem debut 13 years ago. Which doesn't seem helpful at this point.

I've already given you the progressive distance figure. If Tom is passing back more often than AP, he's more than making up for it by;

a) not giving it away as much, and

b) when he is playing forwards, making passes that progress the team further forward than Andreas

It their overall premier league stats which is fair. If you are really sitting there saying he should start over AP when he has TWO assists in 90 appearances in the premier league then i don't know what to say

To be honest with you, I didn't really say that. And if I did, I wouldn't be justifying it based on no. of assists as you rightly say.

But just in case, I'll remind you what you said.

Which other performance this season or last season would you say he deserved to start ahead of Andreas? He literally made a pass last night.

Data wise, there is not a single stat where Tom is better than Andreas, at anything at all in their premier league games.

Think we've proven that statement is bollocks now so I'll leave it at that.

Ok bud, if you and your passing stats help you sleep at night then thats fine by me.

[Chutney]

Data wise, there is not a single stat where Tom is better than Andreas, at anything at all in their premier league games.

This seems like a silly thing to say when it's patently not true.

Not really sure where you're coming from.

Ok, show me what isn't true? . you can just use this - https://www.premierleague.com/stats/player-comparison

Pass completion? is that it? Not hard when 622 of his passes in the league have gone backwards, compared to Andreas's 378 backwards.

Ah sure.. I mean if you don't care about context.

In which case you can probably just ignore that fact that per 90 mins, TC makes twice as many passes as AP..

TC: 57 p90
AP: 23 p90

Or the fact in terms of total progressive distance towards the oppo goal, TC is almost double again..

TC: 220 yards p90
AP: 141 yards p90

Or the fact he creates more shooting chances (without even tacking set pieces)..

TC: 4.10 p90
AP: 3.94 p90

Or even that TC defensively gets better numbers according to the 'data'. For combined tackles + interceptions..

TC: 2   p90
AP: 0.8 p90

But if you want to say stuff like 'Data wise, there is not a single stat where Tom is better than Andreas..' then crack on guess?


https://fbref.com/en/squads/fd962109/2022-2023/Fulham-Stats#all_stats_standard

Fair.

how many passes in those 90 minutes are forward, which they should be playing as a CAM.

Forward - AP - 637  TC - 572
Backwards - AP - 378 TC - 622

Overall in the league they have

Big chances created

AP - 16 TC - 9


You said more shooting chances? but what about ..

Shots on target

AP - 41   TC - 15

Shots

AP 111 - TC - 67

Assists

AP - 10. TC - 2



Tom basically gets more successful passes because he passes back to our defense most of the time.

Except that per 90, last season, Cairney made 15.7 successful forward passes, Andreas Made 9.

Yes as Chutney has pointed out.. Andreas played about 2.5 x more mins than Cairney. If you're doing a straight shot comparison then AP will get bigger numbers almost all the time.

But that's like picking a fight with a 6 yo. I'd expect you to win as you (presumably) weigh significantly more.

Look at the breakdown of those events broken down per 90 mins played, and the picture shifts.

how many passes in those 90 minutes are forward, which they should be playing as a CAM.

Forward - AP - 637  TC - 572
Backwards - AP - 378 TC - 622

This is just wrong though, they are the Premier League's numbers for total passes from all seasons in the prem, going back to Tom's prem debut 13 years ago. Which doesn't seem helpful at this point.

I've already given you the progressive distance figure. If Tom is passing back more often than AP, he's more than making up for it by;

a) not giving it away as much, and

b) when he is playing forwards, making passes that progress the team further forward than Andreas

It their overall premier league stats which is fair. If you are really sitting there saying he should start over AP when he has TWO assists in 90 appearances in the premier league then i don't know what to say

To be honest with you, I didn't really say that. And if I did, I wouldn't be justifying it based on no. of assists as you rightly say.

But just in case, I'll remind you what you said.

Which other performance this season or last season would you say he deserved to start ahead of Andreas? He literally made a pass last night.

Data wise, there is not a single stat where Tom is better than Andreas, at anything at all in their premier league games.

Think we've proven that statement is bollocks now so I'll leave it at that.

Ok bud, if you and your passing stats help you sleep at night then thats fine by me.

You brought stats up to begin with? With a claim, that has since been proven to be completely false. When using facts in your argument it is important to ensure they are correct to avoid looking a bit silly.

[Twig]

Data wise, there is not a single stat where Tom is better than Andreas, at anything at all in their premier league games.

This seems like a silly thing to say when it's patently not true.

Not really sure where you're coming from.

Ok, show me what isn't true? . you can just use this - https://www.premierleague.com/stats/player-comparison

Pass completion? is that it? Not hard when 622 of his passes in the league have gone backwards, compared to Andreas's 378 backwards.

Ah sure.. I mean if you don't care about context.

In which case you can probably just ignore that fact that per 90 mins, TC makes twice as many passes as AP..

TC: 57 p90
AP: 23 p90

Or the fact in terms of total progressive distance towards the oppo goal, TC is almost double again..

TC: 220 yards p90
AP: 141 yards p90

Or the fact he creates more shooting chances (without even tacking set pieces)..

TC: 4.10 p90
AP: 3.94 p90

Or even that TC defensively gets better numbers according to the 'data'. For combined tackles + interceptions..

TC: 2   p90
AP: 0.8 p90

But if you want to say stuff like 'Data wise, there is not a single stat where Tom is better than Andreas..' then crack on guess?


https://fbref.com/en/squads/fd962109/2022-2023/Fulham-Stats#all_stats_standard

Fair.

how many passes in those 90 minutes are forward, which they should be playing as a CAM.

Forward - AP - 637  TC - 572
Backwards - AP - 378 TC - 622

Overall in the league they have

Big chances created

AP - 16 TC - 9


You said more shooting chances? but what about ..

Shots on target

AP - 41   TC - 15

Shots

AP 111 - TC - 67

Assists

AP - 10. TC - 2



Tom basically gets more successful passes because he passes back to our defense most of the time.

Except that per 90, last season, Cairney made 15.7 successful forward passes, Andreas Made 9.

Yes as Chutney has pointed out.. Andreas played about 2.5 x more mins than Cairney. If you're doing a straight shot comparison then AP will get bigger numbers almost all the time.

But that's like picking a fight with a 6 yo. I'd expect you to win as you (presumably) weigh significantly more.

Look at the breakdown of those events broken down per 90 mins played, and the picture shifts.

how many passes in those 90 minutes are forward, which they should be playing as a CAM.

Forward - AP - 637  TC - 572
Backwards - AP - 378 TC - 622

This is just wrong though, they are the Premier League's numbers for total passes from all seasons in the prem, going back to Tom's prem debut 13 years ago. Which doesn't seem helpful at this point.

I've already given you the progressive distance figure. If Tom is passing back more often than AP, he's more than making up for it by;

a) not giving it away as much, and

b) when he is playing forwards, making passes that progress the team further forward than Andreas

It their overall premier league stats which is fair. If you are really sitting there saying he should start over AP when he has TWO assists in 90 appearances in the premier league then i don't know what to say

To be honest with you, I didn't really say that. And if I did, I wouldn't be justifying it based on no. of assists as you rightly say.

But just in case, I'll remind you what you said.

Which other performance this season or last season would you say he deserved to start ahead of Andreas? He literally made a pass last night.

Data wise, there is not a single stat where Tom is better than Andreas, at anything at all in their premier league games.

Think we've proven that statement is bollocks now so I'll leave it at that.

Ok bud, if you and your passing stats help you sleep at night then thats fine by me.

Or you could always hold your hand up and admit with good grace that you got it badly wrong. That would be the grown up thing to do.

[Bill2]

TC is a much better passer than Pereira who is better at bringing the ball forward. Unfortunately in doing that he often runs into trouble and loses it. Personally I would prefer TC, but not sure he has a regular 90 minutes in him which is why he is on the bench.

[Cobh Fulham Fan]

TC is a much better passer than Pereira who is better at bringing the ball forward. Unfortunately in doing that he often runs into trouble and loses it. Personally I would prefer TC, but not sure he has a regular 90 minutes in him which is why he is on the bench.

So you are basically saying what Silva is thinking - both players have a lot to offer the team in different ways! 
if only other supporters could get a handle on that.
 

[Sting of the North]

My suggestion is to stop feeding the troll, gentlemen. He's not even pretending to argue in good faith.

[Sammyffc]

Data wise, there is not a single stat where Tom is better than Andreas, at anything at all in their premier league games.

This seems like a silly thing to say when it's patently not true.

Not really sure where you're coming from.

Ok, show me what isn't true? . you can just use this - https://www.premierleague.com/stats/player-comparison

Pass completion? is that it? Not hard when 622 of his passes in the league have gone backwards, compared to Andreas's 378 backwards.

Ah sure.. I mean if you don't care about context.

In which case you can probably just ignore that fact that per 90 mins, TC makes twice as many passes as AP..

TC: 57 p90
AP: 23 p90

Or the fact in terms of total progressive distance towards the oppo goal, TC is almost double again..

TC: 220 yards p90
AP: 141 yards p90

Or the fact he creates more shooting chances (without even tacking set pieces)..

TC: 4.10 p90
AP: 3.94 p90

Or even that TC defensively gets better numbers according to the 'data'. For combined tackles + interceptions..

TC: 2   p90
AP: 0.8 p90

But if you want to say stuff like 'Data wise, there is not a single stat where Tom is better than Andreas..' then crack on guess?


https://fbref.com/en/squads/fd962109/2022-2023/Fulham-Stats#all_stats_standard

Fair.

how many passes in those 90 minutes are forward, which they should be playing as a CAM.

Forward - AP - 637  TC - 572
Backwards - AP - 378 TC - 622

Overall in the league they have

Big chances created

AP - 16 TC - 9


You said more shooting chances? but what about ..

Shots on target

AP - 41   TC - 15

Shots

AP 111 - TC - 67

Assists

AP - 10. TC - 2



Tom basically gets more successful passes because he passes back to our defense most of the time.

Except that per 90, last season, Cairney made 15.7 successful forward passes, Andreas Made 9.

Yes as Chutney has pointed out.. Andreas played about 2.5 x more mins than Cairney. If you're doing a straight shot comparison then AP will get bigger numbers almost all the time.

But that's like picking a fight with a 6 yo. I'd expect you to win as you (presumably) weigh significantly more.

Look at the breakdown of those events broken down per 90 mins played, and the picture shifts.

how many passes in those 90 minutes are forward, which they should be playing as a CAM.

Forward - AP - 637  TC - 572
Backwards - AP - 378 TC - 622

This is just wrong though, they are the Premier League's numbers for total passes from all seasons in the prem, going back to Tom's prem debut 13 years ago. Which doesn't seem helpful at this point.

I've already given you the progressive distance figure. If Tom is passing back more often than AP, he's more than making up for it by;

a) not giving it away as much, and

b) when he is playing forwards, making passes that progress the team further forward than Andreas

It their overall premier league stats which is fair. If you are really sitting there saying he should start over AP when he has TWO assists in 90 appearances in the premier league then i don't know what to say

To be honest with you, I didn't really say that. And if I did, I wouldn't be justifying it based on no. of assists as you rightly say.

But just in case, I'll remind you what you said.

Which other performance this season or last season would you say he deserved to start ahead of Andreas? He literally made a pass last night.

Data wise, there is not a single stat where Tom is better than Andreas, at anything at all in their premier league games.

Think we've proven that statement is bollocks now so I'll leave it at that.

Ok bud, if you and your passing stats help you sleep at night then thats fine by me.

Or you could always hold your hand up and admit with good grace that you got it badly wrong. That would be the grown up thing to do.

Fair, i will admit i was wrong about the passing. you make a valid point, however it doesnt change my mind that TC of now is not the TC we had before, he is crap at this level.

[Bassey the warrior]

My take on this is that Lukic should've scored but should get credit for making an intelligent run, we need more of that as Pereira and Reed don't get in the box often enough. I remember last year when Cairney was starting he was making some good runs into the box too, Pereira should learn from that if he's going to be starting.

[SerbianLad]

My take on this is that Lukic should've scored but should get credit for making an intelligent run, we need more of that as Pereira and Reed don't get in the box often enough. I remember last year when Cairney was starting he was making some good runs into the box too, Pereira should learn from that if he's going to be starting.

Agreed about the Lukic chance completely. He started the move somewhere around the halfway line by making an excellent diagonal pass to Willian, and then managed to make that intelligent run and get himself a sitter. Granted, the miss was extremelly poor, but he did a lot of things right when he came on (that whole action, some nice passes and good pressing).

Cairney also made some very good passes and got himself in good positions as well. And so did Iwobi. I'd like all 3 to start the next match in place of Reed, Andreas and Wilson, respectively.

On the whole Cairney/Pereira debate, I personally prefer what Andreas offers usually, but he's in a poor run of form and against Sheffield Cairney should replace him, imo.

[alfie]

My take on this is that Lukic should've scored but should get credit for making an intelligent run, we need more of that as Pereira and Reed don't get in the box often enough. I remember last year when Cairney was starting he was making some good runs into the box too, Pereira should learn from that if he's going to be starting.

Agreed about the Lukic chance completely. He started the move somewhere around the halfway line by making an excellent diagonal pass to Willian, and then managed to make that intelligent run and get himself a sitter. Granted, the miss was extremelly poor, but he did a lot of things right when he came on (that whole action, some nice passes and good pressing).

Cairney also made some very good passes and got himself in good positions as well. And so did Iwobi. I'd like all 3 to start the next match in place of Reed, Andreas and Wilson, respectively.

On the whole Cairney/Pereira debate, I personally prefer what Andreas offers usually, but he's in a poor run of form and against Sheffield Cairney should replace him, imo.

I think the keeper should get a little credit.

[filham]

I wouldn't try to better Silva's team selection but I do know that it is well worth the price of a seat in the JH stand to see Tom Cairney playing football for half an hour, he is pure class.

[perry geyton]

Data wise, there is not a single stat where Tom is better than Andreas, at anything at all in their premier league games.

This seems like a silly thing to say when it's patently not true.

Not really sure where you're coming from.

Ok, show me what isn't true? . you can just use this - https://www.premierleague.com/stats/player-comparison

Pass completion? is that it? Not hard when 622 of his passes in the league have gone backwards, compared to Andreas's 378 backwards.

Ah sure.. I mean if you don't care about context.

In which case you can probably just ignore that fact that per 90 mins, TC makes twice as many passes as AP..

TC: 57 p90
AP: 23 p90

Or the fact in terms of total progressive distance towards the oppo goal, TC is almost double again..

TC: 220 yards p90
AP: 141 yards p90

Or the fact he creates more shooting chances (without even tacking set pieces)..

TC: 4.10 p90
AP: 3.94 p90

Or even that TC defensively gets better numbers according to the 'data'. For combined tackles + interceptions..

TC: 2   p90
AP: 0.8 p90

But if you want to say stuff like 'Data wise, there is not a single stat where Tom is better than Andreas..' then crack on guess?


https://fbref.com/en/squads/fd962109/2022-2023/Fulham-Stats#all_stats_standard

Fair.

how many passes in those 90 minutes are forward, which they should be playing as a CAM.

Forward - AP - 637  TC - 572
Backwards - AP - 378 TC - 622

Overall in the league they have

Big chances created

AP - 16 TC - 9


You said more shooting chances? but what about ..

Shots on target

AP - 41   TC - 15

Shots

AP 111 - TC - 67

Assists

AP - 10. TC - 2



Tom basically gets more successful passes because he passes back to our defense most of the time.

Except that per 90, last season, Cairney made 15.7 successful forward passes, Andreas Made 9.

Yes as Chutney has pointed out.. Andreas played about 2.5 x more mins than Cairney. If you're doing a straight shot comparison then AP will get bigger numbers almost all the time.

But that's like picking a fight with a 6 yo. I'd expect you to win as you (presumably) weigh significantly more.

Look at the breakdown of those events broken down per 90 mins played, and the picture shifts.

how many passes in those 90 minutes are forward, which they should be playing as a CAM.

Forward - AP - 637  TC - 572
Backwards - AP - 378 TC - 622

This is just wrong though, they are the Premier League's numbers for total passes from all seasons in the prem, going back to Tom's prem debut 13 years ago. Which doesn't seem helpful at this point.

I've already given you the progressive distance figure. If Tom is passing back more often than AP, he's more than making up for it by;

a) not giving it away as much, and

b) when he is playing forwards, making passes that progress the team further forward than Andreas

It their overall premier league stats which is fair. If you are really sitting there saying he should start over AP when he has TWO assists in 90 appearances in the premier league then i don't know what to say

To be honest with you, I didn't really say that. And if I did, I wouldn't be justifying it based on no. of assists as you rightly say.

But just in case, I'll remind you what you said.

Which other performance this season or last season would you say he deserved to start ahead of Andreas? He literally made a pass last night.

Data wise, there is not a single stat where Tom is better than Andreas, at anything at all in their premier league games.

Think we've proven that statement is bollocks now so I'll leave it at that.

Ok bud, if you and your passing stats help you sleep at night then thats fine by me.

Or you could always hold your hand up and admit with good grace that you got it badly wrong. That would be the grown up thing to do.

Fair, i will admit i was wrong about the passing. you make a valid point, however it doesnt change my mind that TC of now is not the TC we had before, he is crap at this level.

"Crap at this level"
maybe your clueless at this level
Stat boy
What a lame thing to say about one of our strongest, longest serving players, pure class
Shown yourself for what you really are, almost embarrassed for you

[perry geyton]

Forget for a moment about player stats, and I favour neither one over the other in this case. what really amuses me here is the idea that Silva might favour one over the other simply because he had involvement in that players recruitment.

so the theory goes that Silva would deliberately risk losing a game and his reputation in order to convince his boss that he's


 sticking by his original choice/recruit. And he will stubbornly stick with that approach, even if it means he might give himself a name as a losing coach that might also lead his club into a relegation battle at the end of the season?

sorry now guys, but thats a conspiracy too far for me. you might as well just say that Silva has no real interest in Fulham, or that he had advised Mitro to take the Saudi money and run.

whatever you do guys - dont consider the simple possibility that Silva might favour some players over others for particular games because he see they have particular attributes.  Thats a managers job, to manage and WIN games.

So explain Scott Parker dropping Mitrovic then for Cav. I know he didn't sign him but he just favored him which was clearly wrong,
Ranieri too was making strange decisions, barely played Tom either in favour of players far less effective

Sorry now Perry, but the last person youll find me defending is Scott Parker. I was specifically talking about Marco Silva.
If you are trying to argue that Silva compares to Parker, well then we are into a whole debate of another kind.

incidentally, I agree with most of your arguments about TC, its the bit about the notion that Silva would risk throwing games, that I have a problem with.

No I don't think that at all, it's just that Marco tends to favor him no matter what TC does, I remember near the end of last season when Perreira was out and Cairney was getting more play time, we just looked better, was hoping it would sink in with Marco in that period but it clearly didn't,,,
I like Perreira not slagging him but he's been largely crap this season and needs some bench time IMO

[perry geyton]

Even if stat boy doesn't agree so

[The Rational Fan]

Sublime !!!

I've been saying it for a long time, I'm not sure how Perreira "who's been largely invisible this season" starts week in week out over him ?

Was typical Tom Cairney the "Glenn Hoddle" of Fulham. A long time servant of this club is the playmaker we need but is sometimes overlooked to the likes of headless DeCordova-Reid. Lukic is also not good enough for the first team and should have scored.

Comparisons between Glenn Hoddle and Tom Cairney are ridiculous, because while both can provide a "sublime medium range pass" with their left foot and neither are super fast the comparisons stop there. Glenn Hoddle was vastly superior off the ball (in both defence and attack with his positional sense being amazing), was one of the greatest players ever on the ball (able to hold the ball and to provide "sublime very long range pass" with either foot), started his career as an attacking midfielder, finished his career as a centre-back at Swindon/Chelsea and provides many assists, key goals and significant deadball skills.

Tom Cairney has been outclassed by top premier league players, more than Glenn Hoddle was outclassed against Diego Maradona at his absolute best. May I remind you that, against Maradona, Hoddle was illegally pushed to the ground during the build up for "Goal of the Century" and the other Maradona goal was "the Hand of God". Without those two fouls, Hoddle's History would be different as England would have progressed 1-0 to the SF and maybe 1986 WC Champion.

And, now there is Bryan Robson (who was overall marginally better than Hoddle) to compete for a spot with in the current English Squad,  he [Hoddle] could make the current England team in about six positions (#4, #5, #6, #7, #8 or #10) and probably playing for either Harry Maquire, Kevin Phillips or Jordan Henderson. Tom Cairney can only play one position in some formations (none in other formations), can go completely missing in games and not good enough off the ball for a weaker Scottish Team. In terms of player quality, Glenn Hoddle was much closer to Zinedine Zidane, than Tom Cairney was ever to Glenn Hoddle.

For those that haven't seen Glenn Hoddle, please look at the pure genius of this player. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZ9qZCrlZ_w

[perry geyton]

I wouldn't try to better Silva's team selection but I do know that it is well worth the price of a seat in the JH stand to see Tom Cairney playing football for half an hour, he is pure class.

Love that

[RaySmith]

marco is always gonna play one of his signings over someone elses. to reinforce his acumen with the owners dosh.

Obviously, a manager will believe in a player he's signed, and wants him to do well, show the manager's good judgement. BUT, any manager  wants/needs results - his job is on the line, so if Silva believes Tom is a better starter than Pereira, he will start him.

I thought Pereira  was very impressive in his first games, defending as well as in attack, but has maybe gone off the boil a bit, while Tom is always impressive when he comes on, but Silva is paid the big bucks to make these, tough decisions, and his job is on the line if he is wrong.

GJ thinks Tom should start, by btw!