FIFA won'r allow Poppies on England Shirts - Merged Topics

[luckykat]

FIFA sinks to a new low.

[Burt]

Is this their further, final, decision in response to further representations from the English and Welsh FAs yesterday?

[Rupert]

FIFA sinks to a new low.

Yes, but bear in mind that most of them were on the losing side   092.gif


Okay, now that I have made a fatuous remark about a serious topic, I had best redeem myself.

To a certain extent, I can see the FIFA point of view. They have rules about what can and can not go on shirts, and as soon as you make an exception, all sorts of nonsense could be introduced.
In this case, though, I think they have got it horribly wrong. The poppy is not glorifying a British victory over the Hun/Frog/Wop/Yank (yes, we have given them a couple of hidings, hence the White House got named after they whitewashed it to hide the soot marks), it is a symbol of remembering the dead of all wars. That's all the dead. Not just ours. Quite a few war graves in British war cemetries in Flanders have the heading, "An Unknown Soldier of the Great War", so no guarantees he is not German, French or whoever, they just think he is probably British Commonwealth.
Somebody asked what if this came in and we wound up playing Germany one November afternoon, would we wear it then? Well, why not? We fought alongside Germans in more wars than we did against them. Maybe they would be happy to wear it too.

We live in an age where nonentities seek power, then are terrified of making a positive decision in case it rebounds on them. FIFA have made themselves look like small minded idiots, not for the first or last time.

To play Devil's advocate, what a shame our FA even bothered asking them if they could wear the poppy. Stick it on the shirt and, if FIFA object as the teams emerge, call the game off (no other shirts available, old boy, terribly sorry, still we must abide by your rules, now go and tell those 80,000 people out there and the TV people what you have decided). That would put them in a real dilemma.

[MOR :]

It's a time when we ought to remember, with gratitude and thankfulness, those men and women who gave, and continue to give, their lives in the ultimate sacrifice for our freedom. It is a time which should never be forgotten and one we have a responsibility to support and pass onto the next generation.

FIFA should not be dictating what to do about this, they're utter 's...

[sunburywhite]

There is a simple way around this which nobody has thought of and we should be promoting
Get the players to wear a black armband as that is not against FIFA regulations and on the armband is a red poppy.

Shows respect to the fallen and sticks a finger up at FIFA

[VicHalomsLovechild]

Why don't the squad just wear a poppy on their tracksuits. Rules are rules. I doubt when the decision was made to exclude other symbols on National Shirts it wasn't meant to disrespect fallen soldiers.
So lets work within the rules. Does everything have to end in an argument. That in itself shows a lack of respect for those who gave their lives. They didn't question the rules or the orders they were given. They did what was expected of them and lost their lives in the process.

[ImperialWhite]

Why has this issue only just cropped up now - this can't be the first England game in mid November, can it?

[finnster01]

I think they should wear a poppy engraved with "Two World Wars and one World Cup" on it for the match in November.

And don't try to tell me that will not be sung at great lengths during the match.

[ImperialWhite]

I think they should wear a poppy engraved with "Two World Wars and one World Cup" on it for the match in November.

And don't try to tell me that will not be sung at great lengths during the match.

And the Germans get to wear a badge saying "sod it, no World Wars but we've got three World Cups and three European Championships"

082.gif

[sipwell]

They should all tattoo a poppy on their forehead!

[luckykat]

My daughter is in Afghanistan and a couple of her mates have been killed. FIFA's action makes me sooooo angry.

[White Noise]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/england/8878003/England-v-Spain-lets-play-by-Sepp-Blatters-rules-but-still-turn-Wembley-into-a-field-of-poppies.html

[Mr_Moon]

The Poppy appeal supports veterans from all wars if I'm not mistaken, including current ones. If football wants to separate itself from politics then I can see where they are coming from. There are a number of countries that play under the FIFA governing body who would/will disagree with us wearing a Poppy on our shirts, so FIFA are doing the right thing.

Not to mention how all this media attention has detracted the true values of the Poppy appeal. We live in a day where people wear them to be seen wearing them, not because of their charitableness.

[os5889]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/15643295.stm

David Cameron wants Fifa to reconsider poppy ban

Mr Cameron said he did not believe wearing a poppy was a political act

Prime Minister David Cameron has asked Fifa to reconsider its decision to ban England from wearing poppies during Saturday's friendly against Spain.

On Tuesday, the world governing body rejected a second Football Association (FA) request to overturn the ban.

"It seems outrageous," said Mr Cameron. "I hope Fifa will reconsider.

"The idea that wearing a poppy to remember those who have given their lives for our freedom is a political act is absurd."

He added: "Wearing a poppy is an act of huge respect and national pride."

Fifa decrees that shirts should not carry political, religious or commercial messages.

"Such initiatives would open the door to similar initiatives from all over the world, jeopardising the neutrality of football," it said.

Fifa has allowed a period of silence to be held prior to the game against Spain, which takes place the day before Remembrance Sunday.

England will also wear poppies on their training kit, and on Friday they will stand for a two-minute silence.

Wales, who play Norway in Cardiff on Saturday, will observe a minute's silence before kick-off while Scotland, who face Cyprus in a friendly on Friday, will wear poppy-emblazoned training tops.

Former chief executive of the FA David Davies told BBC Radio 5 live that the policy was necessary but needed tweaking.

"Around the world, if you didn't have this rule, people would use it for political or religious or for personal slogans," he said.

"After the game the FA must campaign, perhaps with the Germans, against this far too draconian and ill-thought-through policy."

On Tuesday, Sports Minister Hugh Robertson wrote to Fifa seeking permission for the England and Wales teams to wear poppies.

He commented: "Wearing a poppy is a display of national pride, just like wearing your country's football shirt.

"The British public feel very strongly about this issue - it is not religious or political in any way."

British Fifa vice-president Jim Boyce added: "I think there has to be a bit of common sense used when requests like this come in.

"Armistice Day is a very important day in the FA calendar, as it is with other associations, and I don't think it would offend anybody to have a poppy on the shirts."

Injured England midfielder Jack Wilshere tweeted: "My great-grandad fought for this country in WW2 and I'm sure a lot of people's grandparents did.

"England team should wear poppies on Saturday. It's the nation's tradition and it would be disrespectful not to."

[finnster01]

The Poppy appeal supports veterans from all wars if I'm not mistaken, including current ones. If football wants to separate itself from politics then I can see where they are coming from. There are a number of countries that play under the FIFA governing body who would/will disagree with us wearing a Poppy on our shirts, so FIFA are doing the right thing.

Not to mention how all this media attention has detracted the true values of the Poppy appeal. We live in a day where people wear them to be seen wearing them, not because of their charitableness.

I strongly disagree Mr Moon. I wear mine with pride and I refuse to believe I am in the minority. If you don't care about the men and women who has made the ultimate sacrifice for their country and puts their life on the line every day, just don't wear one.

And BTW, FIFA can go and bugger themself. They won't be around for much longer anyway

[ImperialWhite]

[1]Prime Minister David Cameron has asked Fifa to reconsider its decision to ban England from wearing poppies during Saturday's friendly against Spain.

"The idea that wearing a poppy to remember those who have given their lives for our freedom is a political act is absurd."

He added: [2] "Wearing a poppy is an act of huge respect and national pride."

Fifa decrees that shirts should not carry political, religious or commercial messages.

[1] The Prime Minister is insisting that it isn't a political issue. A nice ironic flavour to this.

[2] Wearing a poppy is an act of national pride? Err, no mate, it isn't. I don't think Cameron understands what the poppies are about at all. By saying this, he is illustrating the exact reason why FIFA don't want us wearing them in the first place!

David Cameron - what an idiot!

[os5889]

Firstly let me say one thing I am wholeheartedly behind letting the England team where poppies, I believe it is right and a disgrace that FIFA have banned  us from doing so.

However, I do find the viewpoint that we should ignore FIFA or do something to stick it to them slightly hypocritical.

In an age that we are all in arms about the youth of today and their lack of respect in the community and whilst in education. What sort of a message do you think we, the adults are sending out by screaming and scorning and being so keen to disrespect the rules that have been laid down by the governing body - FIFA.

How can we criticise and expect the youth of today to show respect towards authority if we (England AND Wales) are so keen to kick off and throw our toys out of the pram in a state of national uproar every time we don't get our own way - getting the World Cup and now the Poppies.

I am aware this is a massively poignant and sensitive issue and have been attending British Legion Rememberance ceremonies for as long as I can remember. However, our governing body has made a ruling and I feel we should respect it.

Anyway, the way that its come up this year and been so publicly aired it feels like the FA has been told to do something and decided its to rebel like a spotty teenager.

If this was really about poppies the FA really wanted to help they could have made a donation to the British Legion Poppy appeal to the amount of any likely fine and moved on heads held high....

I've given my opinion, time to knuckle down, Im heading to the bomb shelter  :028:

Sent from my typerputer, in my house wearing a poppy on my Scarlets shirt!

[In the Enclosure]

Think this is being hyped up beyond reason. I don't think England or any other teams wore Poppies in years gone by so why make a big issue now ? In fact I think wearing them on football shirts trivialises the event which was meant to be silent remembrance of the dead on the 11th minute of the 11th hour of the 11th month. - In years gone by I remember the whole country (schools , offices , factories) fell into solemn remambrance of the dead.

I believe politicians changed the timing to the nearest Sunday so as not to interefere with business.
My Father and Grandfather who fought in the wars and lived in Fulham said that in the twenties and thirties in Fulham you could end up being punched to the ground if you did not observe the silence.  It was virtually that way at my school in Fulham in the Fifties - no argument - a common cause.

Seems a long way from chasing a bloody ball around the field ! If the FA care so much let them dedicate all the advertising to the Poppy Appeal and Help for Heoes fund. They won't because they are bloody hypocrites. Failing that pay to decorate the stadium with Poppies.

[Mr_Moon]

I strongly disagree Mr Moon. I wear mine with pride and I refuse to believe I am in the minority. If you don't care about the men and women who has made the ultimate sacrifice for their country and puts their life on the line every day, just don't wear one.

And BTW, FIFA can go and bugger themself. They won't be around for much longer anyway

Sorry, I should have elaborated. I believe that some people, not all of, wear it because it is the 'done' thing to do and they want to be seen with one. I understand that those, like yourself, wear one because you passionately believe in it.

[LordNelson]

Of course we are talking about the Swiss here--who never have to take a life or death stand on anything--except hiding looted nazi gold.  WE have no honored dead to dig up and bring home from Zurich.  I'm sure poppies don't grow on the Matterhorn.   :028: