Dempsey's 90th Minute Goal Against ManU

[Me-ate-Live, innit??]

Oh do give it up !!
You joined this site on 17th August 2012
and the following are a sample of your first posts, they make good reading, it is great to see how consistent you have been. 
You may be an  Apprentice of something but it is not The Maestro



Yes, let Jol decide. The fact that Duff scored the opening goal, looked as fresh as a daisy and really up for the game and the season didn't influence you then?

Dempsey needs to find a rock to crawl under. West Ham or QPR beckons.
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467     General Category / General Discussion / Re: Breaking news: Dempsey wants to leave and spitting his dummy out (merged)    on: August 18, 2012, 01:08:57 am
Quote from: FancyPantsil on August 18, 2012, 12:45:59 am
Quote from: Ordar on August 18, 2012, 12:14:25 am
and if anything, will actually balance our side.

He's a very difficult player to accommodate as he's not a wide player, nor a striker. He needs a team built around him having a free role. Which is exactly why Riise was getting exposed 2 on 1 early on in the season. No side, especially not a CL side are going to provide him with that free role.


If by balancing the team you mean that Fulham now have a great balance of various players who are mediocre goal scorers, then you have a point.

I can understand being upset with Clint, but that doesn't diminish what he's accomplished over the past few seasons.

He scored 23 goals last season, while playing much of his time from the midfield.  Difficult to accommodate?  I'd hate to see where Fulham would be over the last couple of seasons without him--probably playing in the Championship.

His goals last season were very important to us but before that they were more like the level you might hope for from an attacking midfielder and little more. It is his goals primarily that have kept him as a starter in the side.

He is difficult to accommodate because he is neither a natural wide player - how often does he go outside the full-back and make a cross? - nor is he is a natural striker. He has become a good finisher - a valuable skill and to be appreciated - but otherwise neither his midfield nor his attacking play are exceptional.
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468     General Category / General Discussion / Re: Breaking news: Dempsey wants to leave and spitting his dummy out (merged)    on: August 18, 2012, 12:23:58 am
Quote from: Ordar on August 18, 2012, 12:14:25 am
What I can't stand through this saga today is how people seem to believe that Clint is immune from criticism. I can guarentee that if this situation involved Senderos or Kelly people would be going mental.

At the end of the day, Dempsey is a disgrace. The fact he had a decent season for us is totally irrelevant. Him leaving is by no means the end of the world, and if anything, will actually balance our side.

He's a very difficult player to accommodate as he's not a wide player, nor a striker. He needs a team built around him having a free role. Which is exactly why Riise was getting exposed 2 on 1 early on in the season. No side, especially not a CL side are going to provide him with that free role.

What he has done over the post season will forever tarnish his legacy at the club, much like a certain Mr Bullard. (and that worked out fantastically for him).

He said he wants CL football. Liverpool have never been further away from obtaining that, and certainly won't this season. Let's ship him out the sooner the better overseas to anyone, reinvest any money we get for him on a player that wants to play for the club, target Whittingham or Javis and move on.

Good post. I agree with your clear analysis of the problem of the balance of the team. I am looking forward to seeing Kacaniklic tomorrow.
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469     General Category / General Discussion / Re: Breaking news: Dempsey wants to leave and spitting his dummy out (merged)    on: August 18, 2012, 12:17:36 am
Posters are not trashing his achievements (although those are constantly over-praised). They are assessing his behaviour which is, if as reported and I don't see why not, worse than that of RVP and Modric.

Yes, Fenway and Liverpool behaved incorrectly and presented the temptation but it looks as though Dempsey leapt to grab it with both hands and has found it too late to be an illusion. He has then behaved unprofessionally by refusing to train and undermined his relationship with the club, his fellow players and the Fulham fans. He could not have made a more comprehensive mess of it.

Get real.

Quote from: PaulUMD on August 17, 2012, 11:57:55 pm

Amazing how quickly people are trashing this guy.  60 damn goals in 4.5 years.   

Watch every one of them.  Clint Dempsey's 60 Fulham Goals 2007/2012 | QuickfireGoals Episode #18

He was leaving this year no matter what.  He gave every last bit of himself to this club, give him his due.  If your feelings are hurt, well, put on your big boy pants.  This is football, and unfortunately business is business.  Seems to me the big villain here is Liverpool and Fenway for convincing Clint they were going to sign him when they were not.  Now it's a shitty situation for all parties.   

Be mad at him if you wish, but don't diminish his accomplishments here.   
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470     General Category / General Discussion / Re: CAN WE PLEASE HAVE AN IMMEDIATE PAUSE ON THE DEMPSEY BANGING    on: August 17, 2012, 11:53:39 pm
How are the fans being selfish? It is Dempsey who is being selfish in signing a contract for very large sums of money to the ordinary person funded by the tickets and merchandise bought by the fans and then refuses to honour that contract because, selfishly, he thinks he can do better elsewhere.

It may appear to some that "fans have turned against him all of a sudden" but most see him as an ordinary team member, not a legend, an honourable man or a hero (or any of the hype terms applied by his fan-boys) who has had one great season and find his behaviour now as a prima donna stupid, ludicrous and embarrassing.

Whether he remembers us after he leaves is not the point. The point is that Dempsey has clearly forgotten the Fulham fans over the last month or so otherwise he would be match fit and playing tomorrow.

Quote from: ElissonSnygg on August 17, 2012, 06:52:24 pm
I got to say it's very selfish to be so hard against Dempsey. Can't believe how many fulham fans who just turn against him all of a sudden. Imagine yourself in his position - it's not easy. Give him a warm farewell instead and he will always remember us.
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471     General Category / General Discussion / Re: Breaking news: Dempsey wants to leave and spitting his dummy out (merged)    on: August 17, 2012, 10:54:32 pm
No one can deserve Champion's League football. And it seems the view English Champions League club managers that Dempsey is not going to be part of their campaigns.

Players don't have to be loyal until there is an opportunity to move. Here it looks as though Dempsey, through his agent, was speaking to Liverpool with one year left on his contract and has subsequently said that he is leaving for Liverpool, has refused to go on the club pre-season tour and doesn't want to play for Fulham again. So, at the first opportunity, he proves himself to be disloyal.

Quote from: Oiseau on August 17, 2012, 08:58:29 pm
I don't blame him in the slightest for wanting to leave. He deserves Champion's League football and has been a loyal servant to Fulham. We shouldn't let this difficult moment cloud our memory of a loyal player and who scored some of Fulham's best ever goals. It's important to remember as well that we don't know exactly what's going on behind the scenes. I hope it doesn't upset the rest of the squad too much. Hopefully Clint will bow out sooner rather than later so that Jol can find a replacement.

I wish him the best of luck. He seems like an incredibly nice, genuine and down-to-earth bloke. Hope he retains fond memories of his time here and I wish him all the best for the future.

[YankeeJim]

Respect is something that is earned.
Pretending to be offended when your wind ups are challenged is not Satire and humour are all that's left to the powerless when facts and reason are left behind.

Good quote though. Even if it doesn't apply. You can have the last word.  

[Bill2]

Who else watched the game?  He and Dembele worked their butts off. I couldn't help myself when he scored the tie goal at the end.  I jumped out of my seat like a damn fool shouting his name.  Sigh. The two players we need most right now.  Dembele to Dempsey to Berbatov.  Since that's not going to happen, I'll gladly take Stockdale, a good creative attacking mid, and Balotelli.  But not in that order. 

Was speaking to a Spurs fan today, absolutely hates Dempsey and said he was a rubbish centre forward. Then I told him that he is not a CF but plays behind. Seemed oblivious to the fact that he has scored goals against Man U.
Personally when I have seen him on MOTD a number of the other players don't see to want to pass to him even when he is in a great position.

[EJL]

Who else watched the game?  He and Dembele worked their butts off. I couldn't help myself when he scored the tie goal at the end.  I jumped out of my seat like a damn fool shouting his name.  Sigh. The two players we need most right now.  Dembele to Dempsey to Berbatov.  Since that's not going to happen, I'll gladly take Stockdale, a good creative attacking mid, and Balotelli.  But not in that order. 

Was speaking to a Spurs fan today, absolutely hates Dempsey and said he was a rubbish centre forward. Then I told him that he is not a CF but plays behind. Seemed oblivious to the fact that he has scored goals against Man U.
Personally when I have seen him on MOTD a number of the other players don't see to want to pass to him even when he is in a great position.

Dempsey's not even a number ten. He's a left sided attacking midfielder who drifts into the number ten role.

[Apprentice to the Maestro]

Oh do give it up !!
You joined this site on 17th August 2012
and the following are a sample of your first posts, they make good reading, it is great to see how consistent you have been. 
You may be an  Apprentice of something but it is not The Maestro

What has the date of my joining have to do with anything?

Would you wish me to be inconsistent?

And thanks for finishing with a disrespectful comment.

[HatterDon]

"After what Dempsey did for the club ... ." Here's what Dempsey did for the club last year: He papered over the cracks in Jol's style by scoring goals that moved us from the relegation zone to the top 10. His opportunism and willingness to "try sh1t" is what made last season and what is missing this season.

Here's what happened AFTER the last match last season.
1. Dempsey asked for a 4 year contract extension.
2. The club said no.
3. Dempsey decided his future lay elsewhere.
4. Liverpool made an offer to the board. They were willing. Dempsey was willing.
5. Liverpool agreed to keep the agreement silent so that we wouldn't be in a weakened position in acquiring new players.
6. Some idiot at NESN's web site posted that Dempsey had signed with Liverpool.
7. MAF got incredibly angry and looked for revenge.
8. Believing that Dempsey had something to do with the link, MAF had Jol send Deuce to Coventry.
9. He then got his revenge on Liverpool by waiting until the last 2 or 3 days of the transfer period before telling them that they were NOT getting Dempsey. As a matter of fact, we waited until they had loaned out their #9 to West Ham and then we hung them out to dry.
10. We wound up transferring Dempsey to Tottenham for about half of what we could have gotten from Liverpool -- either cash or cash plus Charlie Adam or Jordan Henderson.

MAF got his revenge, Dempsey got to stay in London. Spurs got the bargain of the year. Everybody wins! Well, except for a bunch of Fulham supporters, most of whom didn't like Dempsey when he was winning matches for us, and almost all of whom despise him now.

No links. Just information I've picked up here and there and some analysis.

how much of that do you know to be true and how much have you inferred? The point at the end about the fans response to the saga I completely agree with, but the rest of it I don't get. It's come out that Liverpool did not make an offer to the club until the last days of the transfer window and this offer was believed to be around 4 million.

We ended up selling him for more to Tottenham than we were offered by Liverpool and Jol is quoted as saying we offered him the biggest contract in Fulham history and he still wanted to go.

Can you link me your information? Because it seemed to me that throughout the whole summer Liverpool where trying to hold us to ransom and take Dempsey on the cheap. I for one am happy for Dempsey for moving to Spurs, they're a club that will most likely be playing champions league football next season unlike Liverpool and I'm proud of the club for sticking by it's guns and not letting ourselves get bullied by Liverpool.

Can you look at the very last line of the post of mine that you quoted?

[BarryP]

Presumably you are referring to me. I do not post in a disrespectful frame of mind but in threads like this with posts like some of the above I will challenge the content of posts.

HatterDon puts up 10 points that may or may not be true but which don't seem to have any backing evidence when challenged by others and I ask how that affects the situation. Someone else makes a claim for Dempsey's legend status on weak grounds to which I offer counterarguments.

What kind of forum protects posters who put up unsubstantiated comments and claims by damning posts that challenge them as disrespectful?

Would you not file this in the unsubstantiated claims and comments bin?

Dempsey is a modest part of the club's PL history and even then he would come behind players like vdS, Schwarzer, Murphy and McBride and others.

Amoung the many opinions that float about regarding Dempsey within the FOF family the one fact that would be difficult to argue against is the man does tend to stir up passionate sentiment when he is discussed on this board.

Signed: Patiently awaiting an answer aka BarryP

PS - I do like the way you always manage to try and sidestep these little questions.

[YankeeJim]

Oh do give it up !!
You joined this site on 17th August 2012
and the following are a sample of your first posts, they make good reading, it is great to see how consistent you have been. 
You may be an  Apprentice of something but it is not The Maestro

What has the date of my joining have to do with anything?

Would you wish me to be inconsistent?

And thanks for finishing with a disrespectful comment.

Need some cheese?
Sorry, I'm a weak person.

[HatterDon]

Oh do give it up !!
You joined this site on 17th August 2012
and the following are a sample of your first posts, they make good reading, it is great to see how consistent you have been. 
You may be an  Apprentice of something but it is not The Maestro

What has the date of my joining have to do with anything?

Would you wish me to be inconsistent?

And thanks for finishing with a disrespectful comment.

Need some cheese?
Sorry, I'm a weak person.

Yeah, but you can nail them deep three pointers when you're riled up, Mr. Y.  065.gif

[nevzter]

All aside, please bring back the avatar of Robert Allen Zimmerman.  I enjoyed that.  

And, he was born in Minnesota.

[HatterDon]

All aside, please bring back the avatar of Robert Allen Zimmerman.  I enjoyed that.  

And, he was born in Minnesota.

"And his wife's name is Betty Lou Thelma Liz."

Oh, sorry, that's Oklahoma.

[nevzter]

All aside, please bring back the avatar of Robert Allen Zimmerman.  I enjoyed that.  

And, he was born in Minnesota.

"And his wife's name is Betty Lou Thelma Liz."

Oh, sorry, that's Oklahoma.

But he sure does like his Falstaff Beer...

082.gif

[Enter the Frei]

"After what Dempsey did for the club ... ." Here's what Dempsey did for the club last year: He papered over the cracks in Jol's style by scoring goals that moved us from the relegation zone to the top 10. His opportunism and willingness to "try sh1t" is what made last season and what is missing this season.

Here's what happened AFTER the last match last season.
1. Dempsey asked for a 4 year contract extension.
2. The club said no.
3. Dempsey decided his future lay elsewhere.
4. Liverpool made an offer to the board. They were willing. Dempsey was willing.
5. Liverpool agreed to keep the agreement silent so that we wouldn't be in a weakened position in acquiring new players.
6. Some idiot at NESN's web site posted that Dempsey had signed with Liverpool.
7. MAF got incredibly angry and looked for revenge.
8. Believing that Dempsey had something to do with the link, MAF had Jol send Deuce to Coventry.
9. He then got his revenge on Liverpool by waiting until the last 2 or 3 days of the transfer period before telling them that they were NOT getting Dempsey. As a matter of fact, we waited until they had loaned out their #9 to West Ham and then we hung them out to dry.
10. We wound up transferring Dempsey to Tottenham for about half of what we could have gotten from Liverpool -- either cash or cash plus Charlie Adam or Jordan Henderson.

MAF got his revenge, Dempsey got to stay in London. Spurs got the bargain of the year. Everybody wins! Well, except for a bunch of Fulham supporters, most of whom didn't like Dempsey when he was winning matches for us, and almost all of whom despise him now.

No links. Just information I've picked up here and there and some analysis.

how much of that do you know to be true and how much have you inferred? The point at the end about the fans response to the saga I completely agree with, but the rest of it I don't get. It's come out that Liverpool did not make an offer to the club until the last days of the transfer window and this offer was believed to be around 4 million.

We ended up selling him for more to Tottenham than we were offered by Liverpool and Jol is quoted as saying we offered him the biggest contract in Fulham history and he still wanted to go.

Can you link me your information? Because it seemed to me that throughout the whole summer Liverpool where trying to hold us to ransom and take Dempsey on the cheap. I for one am happy for Dempsey for moving to Spurs, they're a club that will most likely be playing champions league football next season unlike Liverpool and I'm proud of the club for sticking by it's guns and not letting ourselves get bullied by Liverpool.

Can you look at the very last line of the post of mine that you quoted?

so effectively your not going to back up what you said with any evidence then? I think maybe one or two of the points you made I have seen any articles about from reputable sources.

[YankeeJim]

"After what Dempsey did for the club ... ." Here's what Dempsey did for the club last year: He papered over the cracks in Jol's style by scoring goals that moved us from the relegation zone to the top 10. His opportunism and willingness to "try sh1t" is what made last season and what is missing this season.

Here's what happened AFTER the last match last season.
1. Dempsey asked for a 4 year contract extension.
2. The club said no.
3. Dempsey decided his future lay elsewhere.
4. Liverpool made an offer to the board. They were willing. Dempsey was willing.
5. Liverpool agreed to keep the agreement silent so that we wouldn't be in a weakened position in acquiring new players.
6. Some idiot at NESN's web site posted that Dempsey had signed with Liverpool.
7. MAF got incredibly angry and looked for revenge.
8. Believing that Dempsey had something to do with the link, MAF had Jol send Deuce to Coventry.
9. He then got his revenge on Liverpool by waiting until the last 2 or 3 days of the transfer period before telling them that they were NOT getting Dempsey. As a matter of fact, we waited until they had loaned out their #9 to West Ham and then we hung them out to dry.
10. We wound up transferring Dempsey to Tottenham for about half of what we could have gotten from Liverpool -- either cash or cash plus Charlie Adam or Jordan Henderson.

MAF got his revenge, Dempsey got to stay in London. Spurs got the bargain of the year. Everybody wins! Well, except for a bunch of Fulham supporters, most of whom didn't like Dempsey when he was winning matches for us, and almost all of whom despise him now.

No links. Just information I've picked up here and there and some analysis.

how much of that do you know to be true and how much have you inferred? The point at the end about the fans response to the saga I completely agree with, but the rest of it I don't get. It's come out that Liverpool did not make an offer to the club until the last days of the transfer window and this offer was believed to be around 4 million.

We ended up selling him for more to Tottenham than we were offered by Liverpool and Jol is quoted as saying we offered him the biggest contract in Fulham history and he still wanted to go.

Can you link me your information? Because it seemed to me that throughout the whole summer Liverpool where trying to hold us to ransom and take Dempsey on the cheap. I for one am happy for Dempsey for moving to Spurs, they're a club that will most likely be playing champions league football next season unlike Liverpool and I'm proud of the club for sticking by it's guns and not letting ourselves get bullied by Liverpool.

Can you look at the very last line of the post of mine that you quoted?

so effectively your not going to back up what you said with any evidence then? I think maybe one or two of the points you made I have seen any articles about from reputable sources.

Let me help ya out there Texan:

No links. Just information I've picked up here and there and some analysis.


o·pin·ion
[uh-pin-yuh n] Show IPA

noun
1.
a belief or judgment that rests on grounds insufficient to produce complete certainty.

2.
a personal view, attitude, or appraisal

[Apprentice to the Maestro]

Presumably you are referring to me. I do not post in a disrespectful frame of mind but in threads like this with posts like some of the above I will challenge the content of posts.

HatterDon puts up 10 points that may or may not be true but which don't seem to have any backing evidence when challenged by others and I ask how that affects the situation. Someone else makes a claim for Dempsey's legend status on weak grounds to which I offer counterarguments.

What kind of forum protects posters who put up unsubstantiated comments and claims by damning posts that challenge them as disrespectful?

Would you not file this in the unsubstantiated claims and comments bin?

Dempsey is a modest part of the club's PL history and even then he would come behind players like vdS, Schwarzer, Murphy and McBride and others.

Amoung the many opinions that float about regarding Dempsey within the FOF family the one fact that would be difficult to argue against is the man does tend to stir up passionate sentiment when he is discussed on this board.

Signed: Patiently awaiting an answer aka BarryP

PS - I do like the way you always manage to try and sidestep these little questions.

Sorry if you are waiting for an answer from me but honestly did not understand that it was directed at me or quite what it means.

I have reread it and maybe this is an answer: HatterDon ends his post with the 10 points with "No links. Just information I've picked up here and there and some analysis". I would say that that therefore comes within the realm of `unsubstantiated comments and claims'.

[YankeeJim]

Presumably you are referring to me. I do not post in a disrespectful frame of mind but in threads like this with posts like some of the above I will challenge the content of posts.

HatterDon puts up 10 points that may or may not be true but which don't seem to have any backing evidence when challenged by others and I ask how that affects the situation. Someone else makes a claim for Dempsey's legend status on weak grounds to which I offer counterarguments.

What kind of forum protects posters who put up unsubstantiated comments and claims by damning posts that challenge them as disrespectful?

Would you not file this in the unsubstantiated claims and comments bin?

Dempsey is a modest part of the club's PL history and even then he would come behind players like vdS, Schwarzer, Murphy and McBride and others.

Amoung the many opinions that float about regarding Dempsey within the FOF family the one fact that would be difficult to argue against is the man does tend to stir up passionate sentiment when he is discussed on this board.

Signed: Patiently awaiting an answer aka BarryP

PS - I do like the way you always manage to try and sidestep these little questions.

Sorry if you are waiting for an answer from me but honestly did not understand that it was directed at me or quite what it means.

I have reread it and maybe this is an answer: HatterDon ends his post with the 10 points with "No links. Just information I've picked up here and there and some analysis". I would say that that therefore comes within the realm of `unsubstantiated comments and claims'.

Good Lord man:


o·pin·ion
[uh-pin-yuh n] Show IPA

noun
1.
a belief or judgment that rests on grounds insufficient to produce complete certainty.

2.
a personal view, attitude, or appraisal

[Enter the Frei]

if your bringing something up as an opinion I'm fine with that, everyones got opinions just don't try and display them as fact when we hardly know what actually went on with Dempsey in the summer and what we do know doesn't back up the majority of assumptions that have been made.

[YankeeJim]

if your bringing something up as an opinion I'm fine with that, everyones got opinions just don't try and display them as fact when we hardly know what actually went on with Dempsey in the summer and what we do know doesn't back up the majority of assumptions that have been made.

The man said and I quote again:

No links. Just information I've picked up here and there and some analysis.

What more does he have to say? Your whole argument is that he is doing what he stated.  fp.gif

[Enter the Frei]

Here's what happened AFTER the last match last season.

He also said those exact words, it's irrelevant either way I wasn't looking to start an argument I was looking to se how he'd drawn those conclusions because from the evidence I've seen, I don't see where he could of come up with that.

[Apprentice to the Maestro]

Yes, we do understand what opinion is and that that is what a forum is about.

There seem to be two threads intertwined here: one about those opinions and one about what and whose opinions are not disrespectful:

HatterDon posted his ten points. An opinion. Perfectly fine.

There were various responses questioning and supporting. It's a forum. Posters should expect and encourage this. Perfectly fine.

There were however some responses that were not in the spirit of a forum:

"Well, who could have predicted a comment like this? I am completely bumfuzzled in surprise. What insight!

Now I know who FofF put in charge of determining who is and who isn't a Fulham supporter."

and

"It pays sometimes to just skip on by posters who are disrespectful and just like to wind people up. I've seen the same disrespect in multiple threads by the same poster. If I were the rest of you, I just wouldn't bite."

and

"Oh do give it up !!
You joined this site on 17th August 2012
and the following are a sample of your first posts, they make good reading, it is great to see how consistent you have been.  
You may be an  Apprentice of something but it is not The Maestro".

Hardly fair points to move the discussion forward.