Cairney’s pass to Lukic

[The Rational Fan]

Since Dec 2020, Tom Cairney has only played 90 minutes in six league games (five in the championship and one in the premier league), so Cairney might start or finish a game but not both in the premier league ever again. And, I think he is better at finishing a game.

[Motspur Park]

Cairney ,,give it up my left foot enough..

Ex Prat
Another consistent Cairney hater..

The guy is an absolute dick. Never heard a sensible comment from him.

[Cobh Fulham Fan]

I agree with those who say Cairney is a pleasure to watch play, and I have also noted that following the games where Tom was brought on off the bench, there have been much praise for him on here where he might have changed the game for us.

So my question is this, given that most of the experts writing on this board are of the view that Tom no longer has 90 mins left in him (and Im not sure if that is actually true) which half of the game should he start in to have the biggest impact for us?

[Bassey the warrior]

I agree with those who say Cairney is a pleasure to watch play, and I have also noted that following the games where Tom was brought on off the bench, there have been much praise for him on here where he might have changed the game for us.

So my question is this, given that most of the experts writing on this board are of the view that Tom no longer has 90 mins left in him (and Im not sure if that is actually true) which half of the game should he start in to have the biggest impact for us?

Second, when the opponents are more tired.

[blingo]

I agree with those who say Cairney is a pleasure to watch play, and I have also noted that following the games where Tom was brought on off the bench, there have been much praise for him on here where he might have changed the game for us.

So my question is this, given that most of the experts writing on this board are of the view that Tom no longer has 90 mins left in him (and Im not sure if that is actually true) which half of the game should he start in to have the biggest impact for us?

Second, when the opponents are more tired.

The other half

[Sammyffc]

Data wise, there is not a single stat where Tom is better than Andreas, at anything at all in their premier league games.

This seems like a silly thing to say when it's patently not true.

Not really sure where you're coming from.

Ok, show me what isn't true? . you can just use this - https://www.premierleague.com/stats/player-comparison

Pass completion? is that it? Not hard when 622 of his passes in the league have gone backwards, compared to Andreas's 378 backwards.

Ah sure.. I mean if you don't care about context.

In which case you can probably just ignore that fact that per 90 mins, TC makes twice as many passes as AP..

TC: 57 p90
AP: 23 p90

Or the fact in terms of total progressive distance towards the oppo goal, TC is almost double again..

TC: 220 yards p90
AP: 141 yards p90

Or the fact he creates more shooting chances (without even tacking set pieces)..

TC: 4.10 p90
AP: 3.94 p90

Or even that TC defensively gets better numbers according to the 'data'. For combined tackles + interceptions..

TC: 2   p90
AP: 0.8 p90

But if you want to say stuff like 'Data wise, there is not a single stat where Tom is better than Andreas..' then crack on guess?


https://fbref.com/en/squads/fd962109/2022-2023/Fulham-Stats#all_stats_standard

Fair.

how many passes in those 90 minutes are forward, which they should be playing as a CAM.

Forward - AP - 637  TC - 572
Backwards - AP - 378 TC - 622

Overall in the league they have

Big chances created

AP - 16 TC - 9


You said more shooting chances? but what about ..

Shots on target

AP - 41   TC - 15

Shots

AP 111 - TC - 67

Assists

AP - 10. TC - 2



Tom basically gets more successful passes because he passes back to our defense most of the time.

Except that per 90, last season, Cairney made 15.7 successful forward passes, Andreas Made 9.

Yes as Chutney has pointed out.. Andreas played about 2.5 x more mins than Cairney. If you're doing a straight shot comparison then AP will get bigger numbers almost all the time.

But that's like picking a fight with a 6 yo. I'd expect you to win as you (presumably) weigh significantly more.

Look at the breakdown of those events broken down per 90 mins played, and the picture shifts.

how many passes in those 90 minutes are forward, which they should be playing as a CAM.

Forward - AP - 637  TC - 572
Backwards - AP - 378 TC - 622

This is just wrong though, they are the Premier League's numbers for total passes from all seasons in the prem, going back to Tom's prem debut 13 years ago. Which doesn't seem helpful at this point.

I've already given you the progressive distance figure. If Tom is passing back more often than AP, he's more than making up for it by;

a) not giving it away as much, and

b) when he is playing forwards, making passes that progress the team further forward than Andreas

It their overall premier league stats which is fair. If you are really sitting there saying he should start over AP when he has TWO assists in 90 appearances in the premier league then i don't know what to say

To be honest with you, I didn't really say that. And if I did, I wouldn't be justifying it based on no. of assists as you rightly say.

But just in case, I'll remind you what you said.

Which other performance this season or last season would you say he deserved to start ahead of Andreas? He literally made a pass last night.

Data wise, there is not a single stat where Tom is better than Andreas, at anything at all in their premier league games.

Think we've proven that statement is bollocks now so I'll leave it at that.

Ok bud, if you and your passing stats help you sleep at night then thats fine by me.

Or you could always hold your hand up and admit with good grace that you got it badly wrong. That would be the grown up thing to do.

Fair, i will admit i was wrong about the passing. you make a valid point, however it doesnt change my mind that TC of now is not the TC we had before, he is crap at this level.

"Crap at this level"
maybe your clueless at this level
Stat boy
What a lame thing to say about one of our strongest, longest serving players, pure class
Shown yourself for what you really are, almost embarrassed for you

''you're ''..

Oh tough words. Sorry i'm not blinded by the Championship TC like you are. I guess Silva is also a statboi.

If he wasn't crap he would be starting, some reasons he doesn't start is because he has TWO ASSISTS IN OVER 90 PREM APPEARANCES, then when he does start there is a 50% chance he gets injured then add on the fact his right foot does nothing apart from keeping his balance and everything he does on his left is predictable. The fact you think that's acceptable is absolutely hilarious, if that was any other player being linked to us you would be waving your Tony Khan Out flag from your bedroom window for even being linked to someone with such poor stats.

[perry geyton]

Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Tom start in the first leg of the FA cup when we beat Spurs ?

[Sting of the North]

Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Tom start in the first leg of the FA cup when we beat Spurs ?

Don't engage, he will just refute or ignore everything that won't back up his subjective opinion. He's just a wind up merchant. The clue is in him not even trying to be neither coherent, balanced or honest. 

[perry geyton]

I agree with those who say Cairney is a pleasure to watch play, and I have also noted that following the games where Tom was brought on off the bench, there have been much praise for him on here where he might have changed the game for us.

So my question is this, given that most of the experts writing on this board are of the view that Tom no longer has 90 mins left in him (and Im not sure if that is actually true) which half of the game should he start in to have the biggest impact for us?

It's a myth he's definitely got 90 in him, along with the "his knees are shot" nonsense,
The same sheeple slagging him also wrote Tim Ream off a couple of seasons ago saying he should retire..

[Sammyffc]

Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Tom start in the first leg of the FA cup when we beat Spurs ?

Don't engage, he will just refute or ignore everything that won't back up his subjective opinion. He's just a wind up merchant. The clue is in him not even trying to be neither coherent, balanced or honest. 

Wind up merchant? i said Tom doesn't start because he has 2 assists in 90 premier league games, so clearly i am talking about the premier league. If he wants to divert and talk about the FA cup thats on him.

I don't talk about indian food then bring a chicken chow mein into the equation.

[davew]

I agree it was a top drawer pass and should be recognised so by all Fulham supporters!

Yes it was and the end result was, nothing!! Why are you guys comparing TC with AP, in my opinion neither of them are starting 11 PL quality players, cameos maybe!

[perry geyton]

Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Tom start in the first leg of the FA cup when we beat Spurs ?

Don't engage, he will just refute or ignore everything that won't back up his subjective opinion. He's just a wind up merchant. The clue is in him not even trying to be neither coherent, balanced or honest. 

Wind up merchant? i said Tom doesn't start because he has 2 assists in 90 premier league games, so clearly i am talking about the premier league. If he wants to divert and talk about the FA cup thats on him.

I don't talk about indian food then bring a chicken chow mein into the equation.

Pathetic

[Twig]

Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Tom start in the first leg of the FA cup when we beat Spurs ?

Don't engage, he will just refute or ignore everything that won't back up his subjective opinion. He's just a wind up merchant. The clue is in him not even trying to be neither coherent, balanced or honest. 

Wind up merchant? i said Tom doesn't start because he has 2 assists in 90 premier league games, so clearly i am talking about the premier league. If he wants to divert and talk about the FA cup thats on him.

I don't talk about indian food then bring a chicken chow mein into the equation.

What an embarrassment.

[Penfold]

Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Tom start in the first leg of the FA cup when we beat Spurs ?

As far as I can recall, FA Cup ties aren't played in first/second legs. And in the league cup, only semi final is played over two legs.

[Sammyffc]

Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Tom start in the first leg of the FA cup when we beat Spurs ?

Don't engage, he will just refute or ignore everything that won't back up his subjective opinion. He's just a wind up merchant. The clue is in him not even trying to be neither coherent, balanced or honest. 

Wind up merchant? i said Tom doesn't start because he has 2 assists in 90 premier league games, so clearly i am talking about the premier league. If he wants to divert and talk about the FA cup thats on him.

I don't talk about indian food then bring a chicken chow mein into the equation.

What an embarrassment.

Why don't you and Perry go and tell Marco what an embarrassment he is for not playing him, i'm sure you'll be able to get close to the managers area or would you bend down and ask for an autograph instead ?

[Cobh Fulham Fan]

The same sheeple slagging him also wrote Tim Ream off a couple of seasons ago saying he should retire..

I'm not sure using Tim Ream and his current form as the best example was the wisest there Perry, but I do agree there's nothing wrong with Tom Cairney's knees!

[Bobsffc]

TC is a class act, and I think last season had out a very effective way of using him,  bringing him on after 60/70 minutes as the game opened up.

What disappoints me about TC is that he could be more effective, particularly when it comes to goal scoring. Three areas in particular he should be doing better.

1. Arriving late into the danger penalty area
2. Insisting (as captain) that he takes free kicks around the area - none of the usual suspects pose much of a threat atm
3. Taking shots from around the penalty box when he is in a position to do so.

With his ability, he could and should be scoring 10+ goals a season , even in the PL

[Cobh Fulham Fan]

I agree it was a top drawer pass and should be recognised so by all Fulham supporters!

Yes it was and the end result was, nothing!! Why are you guys comparing TC with AP, in my opinion neither of them are starting 11 PL quality players, cameos maybe!

I'm a bit confused here.  You are agreeing that Cairney's pass was top drawer, yet you ask about the end result (No Goal). So your conclusion is that neither Tom nor Andreas are starting 11 PL players, why - because there was no one there to finish Tom's Top Drawer pass?   Is it Tom's fault also when Liverpool comes to play at the Cottage and Klopp complains the grass is too long for his players?

[TC's Sporran]

Forget for a moment about player stats, and I favour neither one over the other in this case. what really amuses me here is the idea that Silva might favour one over the other simply because he had involvement in that players recruitment.

so the theory goes that Silva would deliberately risk losing a game and his reputation in order to convince his boss that he's sticking by his original choice/recruit. And he will stubbornly stick with that approach, even if it means he might give himself a name as a losing coach that might also lead his club into a relegation battle at the end of the season?

sorry now guys, but thats a conspiracy too far for me. you might as well just say that Silva has no real interest in Fulham, or that he had advised Mitro to take the Saudi money and run.

whatever you do guys - dont consider the simple possibility that Silva might favour some players over others for particular games because he see they have particular attributes.  Thats a managers job, to manage and WIN games.

you've never ever seen a manager pick one of his signings ahead of other "better" players? did you have your eyes closed when rlc was here?  and what about when you get an owner who is more hands on with who gets picked. it does happen, and players are played to keep the owner on side? i have seen managers pick "their" signings  ahead of existing players so many times.  its human nature.

[TC's Sporran]

Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Tom start in the first leg of the FA cup when we beat Spurs ?

Don't engage, he will just refute or ignore everything that won't back up his subjective opinion. He's just a wind up merchant. The clue is in him not even trying to be neither coherent, balanced or honest. 

Wind up merchant? i said Tom doesn't start because he has 2 assists in 90 premier league games, so clearly i am talking about the premier league. If he wants to divert and talk about the FA cup thats on him.

I don't talk about indian food then bring a chicken chow mein into the equation.

What an embarrassment.

Why don't you and Perry go and tell Marco what an embarrassment he is for not playing him, i'm sure you'll be able to get close to the managers area or would you bend down and ask for an autograph instead ?

secondary assists dont get mentioned but take the goal against norwich. a fantastic quick thinking pass from tc yet history books show nothing?
football is more than just stats. as a fan surely you can detect when the tide turns and a team is gaining the upper hand or getting on top. yet may still be having less possession but looking more likely to score when with the ball.