Quote from: Sgt Fulham on December 14, 2020, 10:08:16 AM
Good man. I know its important to keep politics off this board but as someone who works in the Pharmaceutical industry, namely for one of those involved in the vaccine project I am glad you're taking the sensible option. I hope you make it to a game soon.
Quote from: flyingfish on December 14, 2020, 10:12:59 AM
Interesting. I was an outpatient at St Georges last week and I walked past a vaccine clinic set up.
Do you mind if I ask - are you n a group identified as 'vulnerable'? Just wondering how this is all working as my in-laws in their 90s (but not out patients anywhere or in a care home) haven;t heard anything yet.
Quote from: blingo on December 14, 2020, 10:45:20 AM
Blingo still wont be taking it. Sorry but I don't trust any of the vaccines at the moment.
Quote from: Twig on December 14, 2020, 11:14:30 AM
My wife and I are in category 5 and can't wait to get it. It's not just important for our protection, we both also see it as a social responsibility.
Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on December 14, 2020, 11:40:22 AM
Now is not the right time to surround yourself with positive people.
Quote from: Holders on December 14, 2020, 11:16:31 AMQuote from: Twig on December 14, 2020, 11:14:30 AM
My wife and I are in category 5 and can't wait to get it. It's not just important for our protection, we both also see it as a social responsibility.
THIS.
Quote from: bog on December 14, 2020, 11:43:47 AMI understand that you will have to wait for the second dose before before it will enable you to run a 4 minute mile.
I am third in the list being 75 but I am concerned about any possible after effects.
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Quote from: Andy S on December 14, 2020, 01:11:24 PM
Why are people more frightened of the vaccine than three virus
Quote from: clarkey on December 14, 2020, 01:06:47 PM
The anti vaxxers only have to look at the history of small pox, MMR and Polio. Who in their right mind would not take extra precautions if travelling up the Zambezi or going to India for example ? Who would not take an anti tetanus jab if they trod on a rusty nail ?
Quote from: Andy S on December 14, 2020, 01:11:24 PM
Why are people more frightened of the vaccine than three virus
Quote from: Twig on December 14, 2020, 11:14:30 AM:54:
My wife and I are in category 5 and can't wait to get it. It's not just important for our protection, we both also see it as a social responsibility.
Quote from: clarkey on December 14, 2020, 01:06:47 PMBreaking News - London just moved into Tier 3.
Well said Twig.Perfectly put.
The more who take it the sooner we get back to normal.The safer we are the less pressure on the NHS.
The anti vaxxers only have to look at the history of small pox, MMR and Polio. Who in their right mind would not take extra precautions if travelling up the Zambezi or going to India for example ? Who would not take an anti tetanus jab if they trod on a rusty nail ?
We could have a problem with Wednesday though...Tier Three for London would cancel fans going, that includes me and my boy. Real shame......
Quote from: toshes mate on December 14, 2020, 03:38:07 PM
Well done, Dodgin.
According to my family GPs there are a lot of reasons why people are not taking up the offer of the vaccine which include fear of exposure to the virus travelling to and from or at the site where the vaccination and recovery (approx. 20mins) is performed. Since there are two such visits to be made there is a perceived double risk and it should be remembered that the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine does not offer immunity to the virus but does reduce the chances of serious symptoms if infected. Full protection from bad infections is stated to be achieved a week after the second jab.
The lack of take up may be why some health workers are getting ahead of the pecking order because a batch, once opened, has to be used up quickly.
If an early chance was offered to me I would take it since, one way or another, it'll prove something, which is what all vaccines need to have to get more general acceptance. However, I anticipate a fairly lengthy wait unless the other two vaccines awaiting approval appear.
Quote from: The Rock on December 14, 2020, 05:35:09 PM
Just curious- what is the expectation if you are under 50 and have no health issues? When do you think they will get through these first 9 phases? 3 months? 6 months?
Quote from: Holders on December 14, 2020, 03:50:59 PMQuote from: toshes mate on December 14, 2020, 03:38:07 PM
Well done, Dodgin.
According to my family GPs there are a lot of reasons why people are not taking up the offer of the vaccine which include fear of exposure to the virus travelling to and from or at the site where the vaccination and recovery (approx. 20mins) is performed. Since there are two such visits to be made there is a perceived double risk and it should be remembered that the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine does not offer immunity to the virus but does reduce the chances of serious symptoms if infected. Full protection from bad infections is stated to be achieved a week after the second jab.
The lack of take up may be why some health workers are getting ahead of the pecking order because a batch, once opened, has to be used up quickly.
If an early chance was offered to me I would take it since, one way or another, it'll prove something, which is what all vaccines need to have to get more general acceptance. However, I anticipate a fairly lengthy wait unless the other two vaccines awaiting approval appear.
I'm hoping for the Oxford one but it's interesting that they're researching into whether different vaccines might complement each other and a combination prove more effective than one alone. By the time they get to most of us they might have more idea.
Quote from: rebel on December 14, 2020, 07:09:31 PMQuote from: Holders on December 14, 2020, 03:50:59 PMQuote from: toshes mate on December 14, 2020, 03:38:07 PM
Well done, Dodgin.
According to my family GPs there are a lot of reasons why people are not taking up the offer of the vaccine which include fear of exposure to the virus travelling to and from or at the site where the vaccination and recovery (approx. 20mins) is performed. Since there are two such visits to be made there is a perceived double risk and it should be remembered that the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine does not offer immunity to the virus but does reduce the chances of serious symptoms if infected. Full protection from bad infections is stated to be achieved a week after the second jab.
The lack of take up may be why some health workers are getting ahead of the pecking order because a batch, once opened, has to be used up quickly.
If an early chance was offered to me I would take it since, one way or another, it'll prove something, which is what all vaccines need to have to get more general acceptance. However, I anticipate a fairly lengthy wait unless the other two vaccines awaiting approval appear.
I'm hoping for the Oxford one but it's interesting that they're researching into whether different vaccines might complement each other and a combination prove more effective than one alone. By the time they get to most of us they might have more idea.
The Oxford vaccine was a two jab inoculation, in error, one of the jabs only contained half the vaccine. So they found by mistake that the one and a half jabs worked better then the two jabs. Because this didn't fit the profile of the trial which was based on two full jabs, they are having to look at others ways of moving ahead with their vaccine.
Quote from: Holders on December 14, 2020, 07:16:26 PMQuote from: rebel on December 14, 2020, 07:09:31 PMQuote from: Holders on December 14, 2020, 03:50:59 PMQuote from: toshes mate on December 14, 2020, 03:38:07 PM
Well done, Dodgin.
According to my family GPs there are a lot of reasons why people are not taking up the offer of the vaccine which include fear of exposure to the virus travelling to and from or at the site where the vaccination and recovery (approx. 20mins) is performed. Since there are two such visits to be made there is a perceived double risk and it should be remembered that the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine does not offer immunity to the virus but does reduce the chances of serious symptoms if infected. Full protection from bad infections is stated to be achieved a week after the second jab.
The lack of take up may be why some health workers are getting ahead of the pecking order because a batch, once opened, has to be used up quickly.
If an early chance was offered to me I would take it since, one way or another, it'll prove something, which is what all vaccines need to have to get more general acceptance. However, I anticipate a fairly lengthy wait unless the other two vaccines awaiting approval appear.
I'm hoping for the Oxford one but it's interesting that they're researching into whether different vaccines might complement each other and a combination prove more effective than one alone. By the time they get to most of us they might have more idea.
The Oxford vaccine was a two jab inoculation, in error, one of the jabs only contained half the vaccine. So they found by mistake that the one and a half jabs worked better then the two jabs. Because this didn't fit the profile of the trial which was based on two full jabs, they are having to look at others ways of moving ahead with their vaccine.
That's the gist, it's a bit more complex than that.
Quote from: rebel on December 14, 2020, 07:46:44 PMQuote from: Holders on December 14, 2020, 07:16:26 PMQuote from: rebel on December 14, 2020, 07:09:31 PMQuote from: Holders on December 14, 2020, 03:50:59 PMQuote from: toshes mate on December 14, 2020, 03:38:07 PM
Well done, Dodgin.
According to my family GPs there are a lot of reasons why people are not taking up the offer of the vaccine which include fear of exposure to the virus travelling to and from or at the site where the vaccination and recovery (approx. 20mins) is performed. Since there are two such visits to be made there is a perceived double risk and it should be remembered that the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine does not offer immunity to the virus but does reduce the chances of serious symptoms if infected. Full protection from bad infections is stated to be achieved a week after the second jab.
The lack of take up may be why some health workers are getting ahead of the pecking order because a batch, once opened, has to be used up quickly.
If an early chance was offered to me I would take it since, one way or another, it'll prove something, which is what all vaccines need to have to get more general acceptance. However, I anticipate a fairly lengthy wait unless the other two vaccines awaiting approval appear.
I'm hoping for the Oxford one but it's interesting that they're researching into whether different vaccines might complement each other and a combination prove more effective than one alone. By the time they get to most of us they might have more idea.
The Oxford vaccine was a two jab inoculation, in error, one of the jabs only contained half the vaccine. So they found by mistake that the one and a half jabs worked better then the two jabs. Because this didn't fit the profile of the trial which was based on two full jabs, they are having to look at others ways of moving ahead with their vaccine.
That's the gist, it's a bit more complex than that.
I didn't want to give you 'War and Peace' on it.
Quote from: Milo on December 14, 2020, 08:02:33 PM
I believe I'm due to have mine on 21st Dec.
Quote from: Holders on December 14, 2020, 10:11:29 AMQuote from: Sgt Fulham on December 14, 2020, 10:08:16 AM
Good man. I know its important to keep politics off this board but as someone who works in the Pharmaceutical industry, namely for one of those involved in the vaccine project I am glad you're taking the sensible option. I hope you make it to a game soon.
Common sense shouldn't be political!
Quote from: Milo on December 14, 2020, 08:02:33 PM
I believe I'm due to have mine on 21st Dec.
Quote from: rebel on December 14, 2020, 11:03:57 AMQuote from: blingo on December 14, 2020, 10:45:20 AM
Blingo still wont be taking it. Sorry but I don't trust any of the vaccines at the moment.
Ask the nurse if you can have it on the bottom, if you think it's going to hurt you, 'Carry On' fashion.
Quote from: rebel on December 14, 2020, 07:09:31 PMThe Oxford double dose vaccine does however offer 'improved immunity' at some stage which is not true of the Pfizer/BioNTech double dose at any stage. We are also seeing much greater interest as to why children's naive T-cells seem to bat the infection away with zero symptoms which may be mitigated by many already known other reasons, e.g. shallower, more frequent, breathing due to lower lung capacity, but is also a reason why they do not normally pass the infection on to others because viral load would be very low.
The Oxford vaccine was a two jab inoculation, in error, one of the jabs only contained half the vaccine. So they found by mistake that the one and a half jabs worked better then the two jabs. Because this didn't fit the profile of the trial which was based on two full jabs, they are having to look at others ways of moving ahead with their vaccine.
Quote from: HV71 on December 14, 2020, 12:36:23 PMQuote from: Holders on December 14, 2020, 11:16:31 AMQuote from: Twig on December 14, 2020, 11:14:30 AM
My wife and I are in category 5 and can't wait to get it. It's not just important for our protection, we both also see it as a social responsibility.
THIS.
So right~ it is the responsible thing to do. I am certainly no fan of this government - but they have thrown money at the problem and as citizens we should play our part in trying to keep this virus at bay.
Quote from: toshes mate on December 15, 2020, 09:17:23 AMQuote from: rebel on December 14, 2020, 07:09:31 PMThe Oxford double dose vaccine does however offer 'improved immunity' at some stage which is not true of the Pfizer/BioNTech double dose at any stage. We are also seeing much greater interest as to why children's naive T-cells seem to bat the infection away with zero symptoms which may be mitigated by many already known other reasons, e.g. shallower, more frequent, breathing due to lower lung capacity, but is also a reason why they do not normally pass the infection on to others because viral load would be very low.
The Oxford vaccine was a two jab inoculation, in error, one of the jabs only contained half the vaccine. So they found by mistake that the one and a half jabs worked better then the two jabs. Because this didn't fit the profile of the trial which was based on two full jabs, they are having to look at others ways of moving ahead with their vaccine.
In Iceland their supremely effective public health track and trace has very detailed maps of infection which also gives clues as to the paths of infection. If only other nations had such disciplined public health we would know much more about this virus.
Quote from: Whitestone on December 15, 2020, 09:35:22 AMRegardless of population size the virus will eventually run out of hosts. Experts say that it is more likely that any mutations of SARS-CoV-2 will likely be more benign than the original rather than more pernicious since that has been true of all coronaviruses that linger in the human population from colds to 'flu. Most seasonal 'flu deaths are within the elderly population which is why 'flu jabs are offered since infection is always possible no matter how a population behaves.Quote from: toshes mate on December 15, 2020, 09:17:23 AMQuote from: rebel on December 14, 2020, 07:09:31 PMThe Oxford double dose vaccine does however offer 'improved immunity' at some stage which is not true of the Pfizer/BioNTech double dose at any stage. We are also seeing much greater interest as to why children's naive T-cells seem to bat the infection away with zero symptoms which may be mitigated by many already known other reasons, e.g. shallower, more frequent, breathing due to lower lung capacity, but is also a reason why they do not normally pass the infection on to others because viral load would be very low.
The Oxford vaccine was a two jab inoculation, in error, one of the jabs only contained half the vaccine. So they found by mistake that the one and a half jabs worked better then the two jabs. Because this didn't fit the profile of the trial which was based on two full jabs, they are having to look at others ways of moving ahead with their vaccine.
In Iceland their supremely effective public health track and trace has very detailed maps of infection which also gives clues as to the paths of infection. If only other nations had such disciplined public health we would know much more about this virus.
Iceland have a population of 364,00 not dissimilar to that of the city of Cardiff. It's a significantly easier task to control a virus with those numbers. Quite simply not comparable to other nations with population numbers in the high millions.
Quote from: rebel on December 15, 2020, 09:30:19 AMQuote from: HV71 on December 14, 2020, 12:36:23 PMQuote from: Holders on December 14, 2020, 11:16:31 AMQuote from: Twig on December 14, 2020, 11:14:30 AM
My wife and I are in category 5 and can't wait to get it. It's not just important for our protection, we both also see it as a social responsibility.
THIS.
So right~ it is the responsible thing to do. I am certainly no fan of this government - but they have thrown money at the problem and as citizens we should play our part in trying to keep this virus at bay.
The Government could of saved the 'manic state of affairs' had it simply told people in mid to late January to wear masks and social distance, thousands of lives would have been saved (even if the virus hadn't appeared in the UK). Prevention is always much better then cure.
Quote from: rebel on December 15, 2020, 09:30:19 AMThat's true, but people have been told to wear masks and social distance and choose to ignore it.Quote from: HV71 on December 14, 2020, 12:36:23 PMQuote from: Holders on December 14, 2020, 11:16:31 AMQuote from: Twig on December 14, 2020, 11:14:30 AM
My wife and I are in category 5 and can't wait to get it. It's not just important for our protection, we both also see it as a social responsibility.
THIS.
So right~ it is the responsible thing to do. I am certainly no fan of this government - but they have thrown money at the problem and as citizens we should play our part in trying to keep this virus at bay.
The Government could of saved the 'manic state of affairs' had it simply told people in mid to late January to wear masks and social distance, thousands of lives would have been saved (even if the virus hadn't appeared in the UK). Prevention is always much better then cure.
Quote from: alfie on December 15, 2020, 11:42:13 AMQuote from: rebel on December 15, 2020, 09:30:19 AMThat's true, but people have been told to wear masks and social distance and choose to ignore it.Quote from: HV71 on December 14, 2020, 12:36:23 PMQuote from: Holders on December 14, 2020, 11:16:31 AMQuote from: Twig on December 14, 2020, 11:14:30 AM
My wife and I are in category 5 and can't wait to get it. It's not just important for our protection, we both also see it as a social responsibility.
THIS.
So right~ it is the responsible thing to do. I am certainly no fan of this government - but they have thrown money at the problem and as citizens we should play our part in trying to keep this virus at bay.
The Government could of saved the 'manic state of affairs' had it simply told people in mid to late January to wear masks and social distance, thousands of lives would have been saved (even if the virus hadn't appeared in the UK). Prevention is always much better then cure.
Only 2/3 weeks ago a few thousand people arrived in London for an anti-mask demonstration, why in gods name would people do that, if someone is not going to wear a mask that's their choice, but why have demonstration.
Quote from: Statto on December 14, 2020, 09:27:45 PMQuote from: Holders on December 14, 2020, 10:11:29 AMQuote from: Sgt Fulham on December 14, 2020, 10:08:16 AM
Good man. I know its important to keep politics off this board but as someone who works in the Pharmaceutical industry, namely for one of those involved in the vaccine project I am glad you're taking the sensible option. I hope you make it to a game soon.
Common sense shouldn't be political!
0001.jpeg
Quote from: Holders on December 15, 2020, 12:28:14 PM
SAGE was aware in mid-January:
"In the middle of January Prof Andrew Pollard, the director of the Oxford Vaccine Group, which runs clinical trials, shared a taxi with a modeller who worked for the UK government's Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies. During the journey, the scientist told him data suggested there was going to be a pandemic not unlike the 1918 flu.
"I went from someone who was aware of a small outbreak in China, which was of academic interest, to realising that it was going to change our lives. It was a chilling moment," Pollard says."
Quote from: rebel on December 15, 2020, 09:30:19 AMQuote from: HV71 on December 14, 2020, 12:36:23 PMQuote from: Holders on December 14, 2020, 11:16:31 AMQuote from: Twig on December 14, 2020, 11:14:30 AM
My wife and I are in category 5 and can't wait to get it. It's not just important for our protection, we both also see it as a social responsibility.
THIS.
So right~ it is the responsible thing to do. I am certainly no fan of this government - but they have thrown money at the problem and as citizens we should play our part in trying to keep this virus at bay.
The Government could of saved the 'manic state of affairs' had it simply told people in mid to late January to wear masks and social distance, thousands of lives would have been saved (even if the virus hadn't appeared in the UK). Prevention is always much better then cure.
Quote from: rebel on December 15, 2020, 11:48:40 AMQuote from: alfie on December 15, 2020, 11:42:13 AMQuote from: rebel on December 15, 2020, 09:30:19 AMThat's true, but people have been told to wear masks and social distance and choose to ignore it.Quote from: HV71 on December 14, 2020, 12:36:23 PMQuote from: Holders on December 14, 2020, 11:16:31 AMQuote from: Twig on December 14, 2020, 11:14:30 AM
My wife and I are in category 5 and can't wait to get it. It's not just important for our protection, we both also see it as a social responsibility.
THIS.
So right~ it is the responsible thing to do. I am certainly no fan of this government - but they have thrown money at the problem and as citizens we should play our part in trying to keep this virus at bay.
The Government could of saved the 'manic state of affairs' had it simply told people in mid to late January to wear masks and social distance, thousands of lives would have been saved (even if the virus hadn't appeared in the UK). Prevention is always much better then cure.
Only 2/3 weeks ago a few thousand people arrived in London for an anti-mask demonstration, why in gods name would people do that, if someone is not going to wear a mask that's their choice, but why have demonstration.
It's all to do with mixed messages, you've got the Health Secretary, talking about preventative measures i.e. wearing masks, etc. then in the same interview, talking vaccines, vaccines, 'the end is near' etc. All the 'gobbledygook' about this Tier, that Tier etc, is confusing for people.
Quote from: Twig on December 16, 2020, 01:36:38 PMQuote from: rebel on December 15, 2020, 09:30:19 AMQuote from: HV71 on December 14, 2020, 12:36:23 PMQuote from: Holders on December 14, 2020, 11:16:31 AMQuote from: Twig on December 14, 2020, 11:14:30 AM
My wife and I are in category 5 and can't wait to get it. It's not just important for our protection, we both also see it as a social responsibility.
THIS.
So right~ it is the responsible thing to do. I am certainly no fan of this government - but they have thrown money at the problem and as citizens we should play our part in trying to keep this virus at bay.
The Government could of saved the 'manic state of affairs' had it simply told people in mid to late January to wear masks and social distance, thousands of lives would have been saved (even if the virus hadn't appeared in the UK). Prevention is always much better then cure.
It's not like me to defend this government but to be fair the WHO advice did not favour masks back in January.
Quote from: filham on December 16, 2020, 03:54:33 PM
So, tell me how are we notified that a jab is ready for us, email, letter or phone call and by whom.
Quote from: Twig on December 16, 2020, 01:40:22 PMQuote from: rebel on December 15, 2020, 11:48:40 AMQuote from: alfie on December 15, 2020, 11:42:13 AMQuote from: rebel on December 15, 2020, 09:30:19 AMThat's true, but people have been told to wear masks and social distance and choose to ignore it.Quote from: HV71 on December 14, 2020, 12:36:23 PMQuote from: Holders on December 14, 2020, 11:16:31 AMQuote from: Twig on December 14, 2020, 11:14:30 AM
My wife and I are in category 5 and can't wait to get it. It's not just important for our protection, we both also see it as a social responsibility.
THIS.
So right~ it is the responsible thing to do. I am certainly no fan of this government - but they have thrown money at the problem and as citizens we should play our part in trying to keep this virus at bay.
The Government could of saved the 'manic state of affairs' had it simply told people in mid to late January to wear masks and social distance, thousands of lives would have been saved (even if the virus hadn't appeared in the UK). Prevention is always much better then cure.
Only 2/3 weeks ago a few thousand people arrived in London for an anti-mask demonstration, why in gods name would people do that, if someone is not going to wear a mask that's their choice, but why have demonstration.
It's all to do with mixed messages, you've got the Health Secretary, talking about preventative measures i.e. wearing masks, etc. then in the same interview, talking vaccines, vaccines, 'the end is near' etc. All the 'gobbledygook' about this Tier, that Tier etc, is confusing for people.
I don't think that several thousand idiots coming to demonstrate in London has anything to do with mixed messaging. These people are just bone heads.
That said I agree that the government's messaging and some of the pre entative measures have been confusing and have at times appeared contradictory.
Quote from: Twig on December 16, 2020, 01:36:38 PMQuote from: rebel on December 15, 2020, 09:30:19 AMQuote from: HV71 on December 14, 2020, 12:36:23 PMQuote from: Holders on December 14, 2020, 11:16:31 AMQuote from: Twig on December 14, 2020, 11:14:30 AM
My wife and I are in category 5 and can't wait to get it. It's not just important for our protection, we both also see it as a social responsibility.
THIS.
So right~ it is the responsible thing to do. I am certainly no fan of this government - but they have thrown money at the problem and as citizens we should play our part in trying to keep this virus at bay.
The Government could of saved the 'manic state of affairs' had it simply told people in mid to late January to wear masks and social distance, thousands of lives would have been saved (even if the virus hadn't appeared in the UK). Prevention is always much better then cure.
It's not like me to defend this government but to be fair the WHO advice did not favour masks back in January.
Preliminary investigations conducted by the Chinese authorities have found no clear evidence of human-to-human transmission of the novel #coronavirus (2019-nCoV) identified in #Wuhan, #China🇨🇳. pic.twitter.com/Fnl5P877VG
— World Health Organization (WHO) (@WHO) January 14, 2020
Quote from: Twig on December 14, 2020, 11:14:30 AM
My wife and I are in category 5 and can't wait to get it. It's not just important for our protection, we both also see it as a social responsibility.
Quote from: Peabody on December 16, 2020, 06:44:44 PMGood for you my Mum is 88 and she can't wait to have it so she can live the rest of her life with some normality.
Just had my firstb one at Nonsuch Manor, return for my second on 6th Jan. Haven't grown any green hair yet.
Quote from: Peabody on December 16, 2020, 06:44:44 PM
Just had my firstb one at Nonsuch Manor, return for my second on 6th Jan. Haven't grown any green hair yet.
Quote from: mrmicawbers on December 16, 2020, 07:05:04 PM
Quick question to anybody say over 70 who doesn't want to have the Vaccine.Are you going to take a risk and go out when the restrictions diminish or wait until enough people have taken the Vaccine before going out?Or something else?
Quote from: Tempest on December 17, 2020, 08:40:37 AM
Not sure those who don't want it, me for example, will ultimately have a choice, I work in close contact services so will probably have to have it to continue to trade, my partner is Hungarian so if we want to drive to Hungary to see her family we'll probably have to have to have it to travel.
It's interesting to me, someone who spends a lot of time with NHS nurses, how many are dismissive of the virus and equally the need to have a rushed vaccine.
Something is off with the vaccine, if it takes 10 years plus to test a vaccine either this one is extremely under tested and therefore not to be trusted or pharma companies have taken extortionate research and development fees for decades and producing a vaccine this quickly was always possible.
Sent from my SM-N976B using Tapatalk
Quote from: MikeTheCubed on December 16, 2020, 04:52:40 PMQuote from: Twig on December 16, 2020, 01:36:38 PMQuote from: rebel on December 15, 2020, 09:30:19 AMQuote from: HV71 on December 14, 2020, 12:36:23 PMQuote from: Holders on December 14, 2020, 11:16:31 AMQuote from: Twig on December 14, 2020, 11:14:30 AM
My wife and I are in category 5 and can't wait to get it. It's not just important for our protection, we both also see it as a social responsibility.
THIS.
So right~ it is the responsible thing to do. I am certainly no fan of this government - but they have thrown money at the problem and as citizens we should play our part in trying to keep this virus at bay.
The Government could of saved the 'manic state of affairs' had it simply told people in mid to late January to wear masks and social distance, thousands of lives would have been saved (even if the virus hadn't appeared in the UK). Prevention is always much better then cure.
It's not like me to defend this government but to be fair the WHO advice did not favour masks back in January.
To be fair to the WHO in mid-January they supposedly did not believe the virus could spread from human to human:Preliminary investigations conducted by the Chinese authorities have found no clear evidence of human-to-human transmission of the novel #coronavirus (2019-nCoV) identified in #Wuhan, #China🇨🇳. pic.twitter.com/Fnl5P877VG
— World Health Organization (WHO) (@WHO) January 14, 2020
Quote from: Logicalman on December 16, 2020, 08:28:31 PMI thought it was a pretty simple Question to the over70's on this board who decide not to take the vaccine when offered.There were some but can't find the original thread.Quote from: mrmicawbers on December 16, 2020, 07:05:04 PM
Quick question to anybody say over 70 who doesn't want to have the Vaccine.Are you going to take a risk and go out when the restrictions diminish or wait until enough people have taken the Vaccine before going out?Or something else?
Would that matter though?
If you get the vaccine, does it inhibit you from spreading the virus, even if you are immune to it?
What I mean is: Doesn't the vaccine simply protect YOU should the virus get into your system, or does it kill it immediately, considering one can be infectious prior to symptoms appearing?
Quote from: rebel on December 17, 2020, 09:39:32 AMIt looks and sounds like hindsight is a wonderful thing but had it been done what do you think may have changed from what has happened? There are some earlier references of possible events of Covid-19, in North Carolina and France for example, but much testing is not very accurate even now with all we have found out about the efficacy of PCR and lateral flow test and the knowledge they all need clinical investigation alongside the test in order to make informed judgements. The outbreak happened when it did and the WHO behaved as it has been politically designed to behave.
The WHO are sending a team of investigators to China to investigate the origin of the virus. This should of been mid December last year.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/dec/16/who-research-team-expected-to-travel-to-wuhan-to-investigate-coronavirus-origin
Quote from: toshes mate on December 17, 2020, 10:02:01 AMQuote from: rebel on December 17, 2020, 09:39:32 AMIt looks and sounds like hindsight is a wonderful thing but had it been done what do you think may have changed from what has happened? There are some earlier references of possible events of Covid-19, in North Carolina and France for example, but much testing is not very accurate even now with all we have found out about the efficacy of PCR and lateral flow test and the knowledge they all need clinical investigation alongside the test in order to make informed judgements. The outbreak happened when it did and the WHO behaved as it has been politically designed to behave.
The WHO are sending a team of investigators to China to investigate the origin of the virus. This should of been mid December last year.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/dec/16/who-research-team-expected-to-travel-to-wuhan-to-investigate-coronavirus-origin
Quote from: blingo on December 17, 2020, 10:06:19 AM
The WHO have a mountain of things to answer for. This could all have been nipped in the bud if the WHO and Chinese had locked down Wuhan, not let anyone in or out and stopped all international travel.
There is no way I am going to take any injection whilst there is no proof on long term effects.
Lets be realistic, 99.7% of people survive this without any further problems.
If you have already had it, what the hell do you need immunising against.
There are more questions than answers in all of this.
If you isolate the elderly and the vulnerable you eradicate 99% of the problem, which is what should have been done from day one.
Masks....They have done bugger all in Spain to stop the spread. To be effective at all, people have to use them properly. The majority of people in Spain (me included) wear one so as not to get a 600 euro fine, so the same mask is used for days if not weeks.
Herd immunity is the ONLY solution here. What is covid 19 today will mutate tomorrow, how many jabs are we going to need?????
Blingo wont be taking any jab without a track record. How can this new form of innoculation be 90 or 95% effective when EVERY OTHER type of flu jab has never been more than 60% max effective but normally 40-50%? Im nowhere near convinced about any of this, and if i cant fly quantas well they can stick their airline where the sun dont shine. By the way 55% of people in spain are saying they wont be taking the Jab.
Quote from: rebel on December 17, 2020, 10:13:38 AMI am sorry to say, rebel, that you cannot claim thousands of lives would have been saved. Seasonal 'flu around the world takes out hundreds of thousands of elderly people every year and has done for decades. As blingo says above herd immunity stands between us and any virus and vaccines help to prevent the deaths spreading too far outside the group of people who will always become more vulnerable to them as they get older. The world population is growing but the proportion of deaths remains pretty constant and even 2020 will not be particularly different if you are pragmatic and read the facts carefully (i.e. ignore MSM propaganda and read the science that you have to look for yourself because you won't find it pushed by the mainstream).Quote from: toshes mate on December 17, 2020, 10:02:01 AMQuote from: rebel on December 17, 2020, 09:39:32 AMIt looks and sounds like hindsight is a wonderful thing but had it been done what do you think may have changed from what has happened? There are some earlier references of possible events of Covid-19, in North Carolina and France for example, but much testing is not very accurate even now with all we have found out about the efficacy of PCR and lateral flow test and the knowledge they all need clinical investigation alongside the test in order to make informed judgements. The outbreak happened when it did and the WHO behaved as it has been politically designed to behave.
The WHO are sending a team of investigators to China to investigate the origin of the virus. This should of been mid December last year.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/dec/16/who-research-team-expected-to-travel-to-wuhan-to-investigate-coronavirus-origin
Thousands of lives would have been saved worldwide, that is the whole point of the WHO existing. If they issued a global warning and advised on everybody wearing masks and some social distancing, then many, many lives would have been saved. As for North Carolina and France, I think we've been there before. China has been busy blaming other countries.
Quote from: toshes mate on December 17, 2020, 10:28:56 AMQuote from: rebel on December 17, 2020, 10:13:38 AMI am sorry to say, rebel, that you cannot claim thousands of lives would have been saved. Seasonal 'flu around the world takes out hundreds of thousands of elderly people every year and has done for decades. As blingo says above herd immunity stands between us and any virus and vaccines help to prevent the deaths spreading too far outside the group of people who will always become more vulnerable to them as they get older. The world population is growing but the proportion of deaths remains pretty constant and even 2020 will not be particularly different if you are pragmatic and read the facts carefully (i.e. ignore MSM propaganda and read the science that you have to look for yourself because you won't find it pushed by the mainstream).Quote from: toshes mate on December 17, 2020, 10:02:01 AMQuote from: rebel on December 17, 2020, 09:39:32 AMIt looks and sounds like hindsight is a wonderful thing but had it been done what do you think may have changed from what has happened? There are some earlier references of possible events of Covid-19, in North Carolina and France for example, but much testing is not very accurate even now with all we have found out about the efficacy of PCR and lateral flow test and the knowledge they all need clinical investigation alongside the test in order to make informed judgements. The outbreak happened when it did and the WHO behaved as it has been politically designed to behave.
The WHO are sending a team of investigators to China to investigate the origin of the virus. This should of been mid December last year.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/dec/16/who-research-team-expected-to-travel-to-wuhan-to-investigate-coronavirus-origin
Thousands of lives would have been saved worldwide, that is the whole point of the WHO existing. If they issued a global warning and advised on everybody wearing masks and some social distancing, then many, many lives would have been saved. As for North Carolina and France, I think we've been there before. China has been busy blaming other countries.
Quote from: toshes mate on December 17, 2020, 09:19:40 AMI understood that it has yet to be determined whether or not the vacine would prevent re transmission by carriers but that there is hope that it will.
It is worth repeating that the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine does nothing to protect other people from infection by you if you catch Covid-19 and are asymptomatic by virtue of the vaccine. Crazy but true.
Quote from: filham on December 17, 2020, 10:46:15 AMThe vaccine isn't designed to give immunity but there is always a chance with much more rigorous test and track regime studies we will find out who infects who. That is what the the Icelandic process referred to above is designed to achieve and how they know some valuable stuff (to everybody) about the virus. There will be more of this stuff as testing standards improve and the other vaccines come on stream.Quote from: toshes mate on December 17, 2020, 09:19:40 AMI understood that it has yet to be determined whether or not the vacine would prevent re transmission by carriers but that there is hope that it will.
It is worth repeating that the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine does nothing to protect other people from infection by you if you catch Covid-19 and are asymptomatic by virtue of the vaccine. Crazy but true.
Quote from: filham on December 17, 2020, 10:46:15 AMQuote from: toshes mate on December 17, 2020, 09:19:40 AMI understood that it has yet to be determined whether or not the vacine would prevent re transmission by carriers but that there is hope that it will.
It is worth repeating that the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine does nothing to protect other people from infection by you if you catch Covid-19 and are asymptomatic by virtue of the vaccine. Crazy but true.
Quote from: Statto on December 17, 2020, 11:23:07 AMQuote from: filham on December 17, 2020, 10:46:15 AMQuote from: toshes mate on December 17, 2020, 09:19:40 AMI understood that it has yet to be determined whether or not the vacine would prevent re transmission by carriers but that there is hope that it will.
It is worth repeating that the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine does nothing to protect other people from infection by you if you catch Covid-19 and are asymptomatic by virtue of the vaccine. Crazy but true.
that was my understanding also
Quote from: blingo on December 17, 2020, 12:11:37 PMok Blingo ,what do you intend doing if you don't take the vaccine and the pubs and football grounds restaurants etc go back to some normality.Stay indoors?Quote from: Statto on December 17, 2020, 11:23:07 AMQuote from: filham on December 17, 2020, 10:46:15 AMQuote from: toshes mate on December 17, 2020, 09:19:40 AMI understood that it has yet to be determined whether or not the vacine would prevent re transmission by carriers but that there is hope that it will.
It is worth repeating that the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine does nothing to protect other people from infection by you if you catch Covid-19 and are asymptomatic by virtue of the vaccine. Crazy but true.
that was my understanding also
So immunisation jab on something they cant say wont necessarily stop re-transmission? Have we all been brainwashed that badly?
First they have produced vaccines in record time, secondly, the vaccines produced, reportedly, are twice as effective as any brought out before. The more I look at it, the less chance I will take it. For the record I'm 64 Diabetic and have High blood pressure.
The next thing they will try to convince me of is that if my aunty had a pair or nuts, she'd be my uncle. UNBELIEVABLE
Quote from: mrmicawbers on December 17, 2020, 12:32:42 PMQuote from: blingo on December 17, 2020, 12:11:37 PMok Blingo ,what do you intend doing if you don't take the vaccine and the pubs and football grounds restaurants etc go back to some normality.Stay indoors?Quote from: Statto on December 17, 2020, 11:23:07 AMQuote from: filham on December 17, 2020, 10:46:15 AMQuote from: toshes mate on December 17, 2020, 09:19:40 AMI understood that it has yet to be determined whether or not the vacine would prevent re transmission by carriers but that there is hope that it will.
It is worth repeating that the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine does nothing to protect other people from infection by you if you catch Covid-19 and are asymptomatic by virtue of the vaccine. Crazy but true.
that was my understanding also
So immunisation jab on something they cant say wont necessarily stop re-transmission? Have we all been brainwashed that badly?
First they have produced vaccines in record time, secondly, the vaccines produced, reportedly, are twice as effective as any brought out before. The more I look at it, the less chance I will take it. For the record I'm 64 Diabetic and have High blood pressure.
The next thing they will try to convince me of is that if my aunty had a pair or nuts, she'd be my uncle. UNBELIEVABLE
Quote from: blingo on December 17, 2020, 12:43:10 PMI am not suggesting it should be compulsory just asking someone like you goodself how you intend to carry on whilst resisting taking the Vaccine when restrictions ease.Quote from: mrmicawbers on December 17, 2020, 12:32:42 PMQuote from: blingo on December 17, 2020, 12:11:37 PMok Blingo ,what do you intend doing if you don't take the vaccine and the pubs and football grounds restaurants etc go back to some normality.Stay indoors?Quote from: Statto on December 17, 2020, 11:23:07 AMQuote from: filham on December 17, 2020, 10:46:15 AMQuote from: toshes mate on December 17, 2020, 09:19:40 AMI understood that it has yet to be determined whether or not the vacine would prevent re transmission by carriers but that there is hope that it will.
It is worth repeating that the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine does nothing to protect other people from infection by you if you catch Covid-19 and are asymptomatic by virtue of the vaccine. Crazy but true.
that was my understanding also
So immunisation jab on something they cant say wont necessarily stop re-transmission? Have we all been brainwashed that badly?
First they have produced vaccines in record time, secondly, the vaccines produced, reportedly, are twice as effective as any brought out before. The more I look at it, the less chance I will take it. For the record I'm 64 Diabetic and have High blood pressure.
The next thing they will try to convince me of is that if my aunty had a pair or nuts, she'd be my uncle. UNBELIEVABLE
They can't force you to take this vaccine. The Governments will have to decide what is right or not. Why are the govs of the world not then making it compulsory to take it?
Quote from: Statto on December 17, 2020, 11:23:07 AMQuote from: filham on December 17, 2020, 10:46:15 AMQuote from: toshes mate on December 17, 2020, 09:19:40 AMI understood that it has yet to be determined whether or not the vacine would prevent re transmission by carriers but that there is hope that it will.
It is worth repeating that the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine does nothing to protect other people from infection by you if you catch Covid-19 and are asymptomatic by virtue of the vaccine. Crazy but true.
that was my understanding also
Quote from: blingo on December 17, 2020, 12:11:37 PMQuote from: Statto on December 17, 2020, 11:23:07 AMQuote from: filham on December 17, 2020, 10:46:15 AMQuote from: toshes mate on December 17, 2020, 09:19:40 AMI understood that it has yet to be determined whether or not the vacine would prevent re transmission by carriers but that there is hope that it will.
It is worth repeating that the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine does nothing to protect other people from infection by you if you catch Covid-19 and are asymptomatic by virtue of the vaccine. Crazy but true.
that was my understanding also
So immunisation jab on something they cant say wont necessarily stop re-transmission? Have we all been brainwashed that badly?
First they have produced vaccines in record time, secondly, the vaccines produced, reportedly, are twice as effective as any brought out before. The more I look at it, the less chance I will take it. For the record I'm 64 Diabetic and have High blood pressure.
The next thing they will try to convince me of is that if my aunty had a pair or nuts, she'd be my uncle. UNBELIEVABLE
Quote from: blingo on December 17, 2020, 12:11:37 PMQuote from: Statto on December 17, 2020, 11:23:07 AMQuote from: filham on December 17, 2020, 10:46:15 AMQuote from: toshes mate on December 17, 2020, 09:19:40 AMI understood that it has yet to be determined whether or not the vacine would prevent re transmission by carriers but that there is hope that it will.
It is worth repeating that the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine does nothing to protect other people from infection by you if you catch Covid-19 and are asymptomatic by virtue of the vaccine. Crazy but true.
that was my understanding also
So immunisation jab on something they cant say wont necessarily stop re-transmission? Have we all been brainwashed that badly?
First they have produced vaccines in record time, secondly, the vaccines produced, reportedly, are twice as effective as any brought out before. The more I look at it, the less chance I will take it. For the record I'm 64 Diabetic and have High blood pressure.
The next thing they will try to convince me of is that if my aunty had a pair or nuts, she'd be my uncle. UNBELIEVABLE
Quote from: bog on December 14, 2020, 11:43:47 AM
I am third in the list being 75 but I am concerned about any possible after effects.
092.gif
Quote from: Peabody on December 17, 2020, 03:06:55 PMQuote from: bog on December 14, 2020, 11:43:47 AM
I am third in the list being 75 but I am concerned about any possible after effects.
092.gif
The only after effect I have bog is a sore arm.
Quote from: mrmicawbers on December 17, 2020, 01:35:59 PMQuote from: blingo on December 17, 2020, 12:43:10 PMI am not suggesting it should be compulsory just asking someone like you goodself how you intend to carry on whilst resisting taking the Vaccine when restrictions ease.Quote from: mrmicawbers on December 17, 2020, 12:32:42 PMQuote from: blingo on December 17, 2020, 12:11:37 PMok Blingo ,what do you intend doing if you don't take the vaccine and the pubs and football grounds restaurants etc go back to some normality.Stay indoors?Quote from: Statto on December 17, 2020, 11:23:07 AMQuote from: filham on December 17, 2020, 10:46:15 AMQuote from: toshes mate on December 17, 2020, 09:19:40 AMI understood that it has yet to be determined whether or not the vacine would prevent re transmission by carriers but that there is hope that it will.
It is worth repeating that the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine does nothing to protect other people from infection by you if you catch Covid-19 and are asymptomatic by virtue of the vaccine. Crazy but true.
that was my understanding also
So immunisation jab on something they cant say wont necessarily stop re-transmission? Have we all been brainwashed that badly?
First they have produced vaccines in record time, secondly, the vaccines produced, reportedly, are twice as effective as any brought out before. The more I look at it, the less chance I will take it. For the record I'm 64 Diabetic and have High blood pressure.
The next thing they will try to convince me of is that if my aunty had a pair or nuts, she'd be my uncle. UNBELIEVABLE
They can't force you to take this vaccine. The Governments will have to decide what is right or not. Why are the govs of the world not then making it compulsory to take it?
Quote from: blingo on December 17, 2020, 04:20:43 PMQuote from: mrmicawbers on December 17, 2020, 01:35:59 PMQuote from: blingo on December 17, 2020, 12:43:10 PMI am not suggesting it should be compulsory just asking someone like you goodself how you intend to carry on whilst resisting taking the Vaccine when restrictions ease.Quote from: mrmicawbers on December 17, 2020, 12:32:42 PMQuote from: blingo on December 17, 2020, 12:11:37 PMok Blingo ,what do you intend doing if you don't take the vaccine and the pubs and football grounds restaurants etc go back to some normality.Stay indoors?Quote from: Statto on December 17, 2020, 11:23:07 AMQuote from: filham on December 17, 2020, 10:46:15 AMQuote from: toshes mate on December 17, 2020, 09:19:40 AMI understood that it has yet to be determined whether or not the vacine would prevent re transmission by carriers but that there is hope that it will.
It is worth repeating that the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine does nothing to protect other people from infection by you if you catch Covid-19 and are asymptomatic by virtue of the vaccine. Crazy but true.
that was my understanding also
So immunisation jab on something they cant say wont necessarily stop re-transmission? Have we all been brainwashed that badly?
First they have produced vaccines in record time, secondly, the vaccines produced, reportedly, are twice as effective as any brought out before. The more I look at it, the less chance I will take it. For the record I'm 64 Diabetic and have High blood pressure.
The next thing they will try to convince me of is that if my aunty had a pair or nuts, she'd be my uncle. UNBELIEVABLE
They can't force you to take this vaccine. The Governments will have to decide what is right or not. Why are the govs of the world not then making it compulsory to take it?
Exactly as I did before all this scaremongering started
Quote from: Huxley on December 17, 2020, 06:39:11 PMI would think the 50000 plus families who had a loved one die would call it scaremongering.Quote from: blingo on December 17, 2020, 04:20:43 PMQuote from: mrmicawbers on December 17, 2020, 01:35:59 PMQuote from: blingo on December 17, 2020, 12:43:10 PMI am not suggesting it should be compulsory just asking someone like you goodself how you intend to carry on whilst resisting taking the Vaccine when restrictions ease.Quote from: mrmicawbers on December 17, 2020, 12:32:42 PMQuote from: blingo on December 17, 2020, 12:11:37 PMok Blingo ,what do you intend doing if you don't take the vaccine and the pubs and football grounds restaurants etc go back to some normality.Stay indoors?Quote from: Statto on December 17, 2020, 11:23:07 AMQuote from: filham on December 17, 2020, 10:46:15 AMQuote from: toshes mate on December 17, 2020, 09:19:40 AMI understood that it has yet to be determined whether or not the vacine would prevent re transmission by carriers but that there is hope that it will.
It is worth repeating that the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine does nothing to protect other people from infection by you if you catch Covid-19 and are asymptomatic by virtue of the vaccine. Crazy but true.
that was my understanding also
So immunisation jab on something they cant say wont necessarily stop re-transmission? Have we all been brainwashed that badly?
First they have produced vaccines in record time, secondly, the vaccines produced, reportedly, are twice as effective as any brought out before. The more I look at it, the less chance I will take it. For the record I'm 64 Diabetic and have High blood pressure.
The next thing they will try to convince me of is that if my aunty had a pair or nuts, she'd be my uncle. UNBELIEVABLE
They can't force you to take this vaccine. The Governments will have to decide what is right or not. Why are the govs of the world not then making it compulsory to take it?
Exactly as I did before all this scaremongering started
There is no point trying to convince someone who has made up their mind. But i noticed you raised some points to justify your position which is fair. With the "flu" vaccine for the influenza virus, it's pretty much a best guess if the vaccine combination will work for that years dominant strain/mutation. Most of the Covid 19 vaccines are aimed at the spike protein and use a genetic approach rather than an immune response. This technology is being used for Cancer treatment etc and is pretty ground breaking. Virus insert their DNA into ours all the time, so in that respect it's nothing to be worried about. It has a high response rate because it is such good technology. Traditional vaccine use ancient technology in comparison. They managed to do in less than 12 months because all of these vaccines were already in development for other diseases eg Ebola, cancer etc.
Masks, you mention you used the same mask all the time to avoid fines. Hope you wash it daily just for personal hygiene. Mask don't protect you, they protect others from you. If two people wear masks properly, there is a 98% or so chance of transmitting the virus. Way less if only one person. They are not designed to prevent you getting the virus but to slow down the spread.
So you may choose not to take the vaccine. Your choice (at this stage). There is anecdotal evidence that it may confer some protection from transmission. The reason why Covid 19 is such a pain is that you can be carrier for quiet some time before the immune system kicks in. If you are vaccinated there is goof chance that your immune system can detect it earlier and mount a controlled response. the problem is when the body mounts a very aggressive uncontrolled response. With your age and conditions, you have a higher risk of this. Think of it like a seat belt. You don't really need it most of the time. It can dig into your neck and be a bit of pain. you keep having to take it off and put it on again. Would you still wear it if if was not a legal requirement? in the very small chance you have a serious car accident it will safe your life, but in an extremely small chance the seat belt could actually hinder you getting out of the car. As someone else mentioned, getting pneumonia because of Covid will tie up an intensive care bed. So if a kid was in a car crash and it's during the flu season when health services are stretched, it could mean that you or the kid cannot get the care needed as there is only one bed....
So i don't think that i changed your mind, but hopefully helped you understand that the new vaccines work and are quick because the already existed. For your sake, i hope you change your mind and get vaccinated.
Quote from: mrmicawbers on December 17, 2020, 09:51:02 AMQuote from: Logicalman on December 16, 2020, 08:28:31 PMI thought it was a pretty simple Question to the over70's on this board who decide not to take the vaccine when offered.There were some but can't find the original thread.Quote from: mrmicawbers on December 16, 2020, 07:05:04 PM
Quick question to anybody say over 70 who doesn't want to have the Vaccine.Are you going to take a risk and go out when the restrictions diminish or wait until enough people have taken the Vaccine before going out?Or something else?
Would that matter though?
If you get the vaccine, does it inhibit you from spreading the virus, even if you are immune to it?
What I mean is: Doesn't the vaccine simply protect YOU should the virus get into your system, or does it kill it immediately, considering one can be infectious prior to symptoms appearing?
Quote from: Huxley on December 17, 2020, 06:39:11 PMQuote from: blingo on December 17, 2020, 04:20:43 PMQuote from: mrmicawbers on December 17, 2020, 01:35:59 PMQuote from: blingo on December 17, 2020, 12:43:10 PMI am not suggesting it should be compulsory just asking someone like you goodself how you intend to carry on whilst resisting taking the Vaccine when restrictions ease.Quote from: mrmicawbers on December 17, 2020, 12:32:42 PMQuote from: blingo on December 17, 2020, 12:11:37 PMok Blingo ,what do you intend doing if you don't take the vaccine and the pubs and football grounds restaurants etc go back to some normality.Stay indoors?Quote from: Statto on December 17, 2020, 11:23:07 AMQuote from: filham on December 17, 2020, 10:46:15 AMQuote from: toshes mate on December 17, 2020, 09:19:40 AMI understood that it has yet to be determined whether or not the vacine would prevent re transmission by carriers but that there is hope that it will.
It is worth repeating that the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine does nothing to protect other people from infection by you if you catch Covid-19 and are asymptomatic by virtue of the vaccine. Crazy but true.
that was my understanding also
So immunisation jab on something they cant say wont necessarily stop re-transmission? Have we all been brainwashed that badly?
First they have produced vaccines in record time, secondly, the vaccines produced, reportedly, are twice as effective as any brought out before. The more I look at it, the less chance I will take it. For the record I'm 64 Diabetic and have High blood pressure.
The next thing they will try to convince me of is that if my aunty had a pair or nuts, she'd be my uncle. UNBELIEVABLE
They can't force you to take this vaccine. The Governments will have to decide what is right or not. Why are the govs of the world not then making it compulsory to take it?
Exactly as I did before all this scaremongering started
There is no point trying to convince someone who has made up their mind. But i noticed you raised some points to justify your position which is fair. With the "flu" vaccine for the influenza virus, it's pretty much a best guess if the vaccine combination will work for that years dominant strain/mutation. Most of the Covid 19 vaccines are aimed at the spike protein and use a genetic approach rather than an immune response. This technology is being used for Cancer treatment etc and is pretty ground breaking. Virus insert their DNA into ours all the time, so in that respect it's nothing to be worried about. It has a high response rate because it is such good technology. Traditional vaccine use ancient technology in comparison. They managed to do in less than 12 months because all of these vaccines were already in development for other diseases eg Ebola, cancer etc.
Masks, you mention you used the same mask all the time to avoid fines. Hope you wash it daily just for personal hygiene. Mask don't protect you, they protect others from you. If two people wear masks properly, there is a 98% or so chance of transmitting the virus. Way less if only one person. They are not designed to prevent you getting the virus but to slow down the spread.
So you may choose not to take the vaccine. Your choice (at this stage). There is anecdotal evidence that it may confer some protection from transmission. The reason why Covid 19 is such a pain is that you can be carrier for quiet some time before the immune system kicks in. If you are vaccinated there is goof chance that your immune system can detect it earlier and mount a controlled response. the problem is when the body mounts a very aggressive uncontrolled response. With your age and conditions, you have a higher risk of this. Think of it like a seat belt. You don't really need it most of the time. It can dig into your neck and be a bit of pain. you keep having to take it off and put it on again. Would you still wear it if if was not a legal requirement? in the very small chance you have a serious car accident it will safe your life, but in an extremely small chance the seat belt could actually hinder you getting out of the car. As someone else mentioned, getting pneumonia because of Covid will tie up an intensive care bed. So if a kid was in a car crash and it's during the flu season when health services are stretched, it could mean that you or the kid cannot get the care needed as there is only one bed....
So i don't think that i changed your mind, but hopefully helped you understand that the new vaccines work and are quick because the already existed. For your sake, i hope you change your mind and get vaccinated.
Quote from: MikeTheCubed on December 17, 2020, 02:37:09 PM
Imagine being threatened with societal ostracization for not taking an experimental vaccine for a virus that has a ~+99% survival rate, when it's not even known whether the vaccine will prevent contagiousness.
Quote from: Twig on December 18, 2020, 12:37:38 PMQuote from: MikeTheCubed on December 17, 2020, 02:37:09 PM
Imagine being threatened with societal ostracization for not taking an experimental vaccine for a virus that has a ~+99% survival rate, when it's not even known whether the vaccine will prevent contagiousness.
Well more than 30 poor souls are dying every day in the UK and the global death toll is horrible. However I think arguments like these miss a key point. The pandemic has shut down or contracted large parts of both our economy and the global one. Economic hardship is rife and 100's of thousands in the UK alone have lost their jobs. Vaccination is the key hope of restoring conditions in which the economy can reboot and global growth restart. The slower we are to achieve this the greater the long term hardship.
I'm lucky to be in a relatively secure financial position but billions around the world are less fortunate. Economic contraction means huge hardship but even if you don't care about that, ponder the impact of an inexorable rise in economic migrancy!
Quote from: Twig on December 18, 2020, 12:37:38 PMQuote from: MikeTheCubed on December 17, 2020, 02:37:09 PM
Imagine being threatened with societal ostracization for not taking an experimental vaccine for a virus that has a ~+99% survival rate, when it's not even known whether the vaccine will prevent contagiousness.
Well more than 30 poor souls are dying every day in the UK and the global death toll is horrible. However I think arguments like these miss a key point. The pandemic has shut down or contracted large parts of both our economy and the global one. Economic hardship is rife and 100's of thousands in the UK alone have lost their jobs. Vaccination is the key hope of restoring conditions in which the economy can reboot and global growth restart. The slower we are to achieve this the greater the long term hardship.
Quote from: MikeTheCubed on December 18, 2020, 01:29:28 PMYes that may help if all the group's you talk about take the vaccine but as you can see from some on here they are not willing to do so.Quote from: Twig on December 18, 2020, 12:37:38 PMQuote from: MikeTheCubed on December 17, 2020, 02:37:09 PM
Imagine being threatened with societal ostracization for not taking an experimental vaccine for a virus that has a ~+99% survival rate, when it's not even known whether the vaccine will prevent contagiousness.
Well more than 30 poor souls are dying every day in the UK and the global death toll is horrible. However I think arguments like these miss a key point. The pandemic has shut down or contracted large parts of both our economy and the global one. Economic hardship is rife and 100's of thousands in the UK alone have lost their jobs. Vaccination is the key hope of restoring conditions in which the economy can reboot and global growth restart. The slower we are to achieve this the greater the long term hardship.
In the best case scenario, yes.
A possible worst-case scenario would be for ~50 million people to take the vaccine, and 1% of those to suffer severe adverse reactions in the following years, for which they would be liable to claim compensation of £120,000 each from the UK government (not the vaccine manufacturers; they have a legal indemnity). That would cost £60 billion before factoring in potential lost tax revenue or cost of treatment etc.
https://www.gov.uk/vaccine-damage-payment (https://www.gov.uk/vaccine-damage-payment)
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/government-to-add-covid-19-to-vaccine-damage-payments-scheme (https://www.gov.uk/government/news/government-to-add-covid-19-to-vaccine-damage-payments-scheme)
Selective vaccination which weighs up risks/gains and only targets the elderly/vulnerable could still come a good distance towards achieving the desired outcome, but without the risk of the above scenario unfolding on a disastrous scale. Furthermore if no such scenario as the above does unfold there will be many people happy to be vaccinated at a later date.
Quote from: mrmicawbers on December 18, 2020, 01:51:14 PM
Yes that may help if all the group's you talk about take the vaccine but as you can see from some on here they are not willing to do so.
Quote from: MikeTheCubed on December 18, 2020, 01:29:28 PMQuote from: Twig on December 18, 2020, 12:37:38 PMQuote from: MikeTheCubed on December 17, 2020, 02:37:09 PM
Imagine being threatened with societal ostracization for not taking an experimental vaccine for a virus that has a ~+99% survival rate, when it's not even known whether the vaccine will prevent contagiousness.
Well more than 430 poor souls are dying every day in the UK and the global death toll is horrible. However I think arguments like these miss a key point. The pandemic has shut down or contracted large parts of both our economy and the global one. Economic hardship is rife and 100's of thousands in the UK alone have lost their jobs. Vaccination is the key hope of restoring conditions in which the economy can reboot and global growth restart. The slower we are to achieve this the greater the long term hardship.
In the best case scenario, yes.
A possible worst-case scenario would be for ~50 million people to take the vaccine, and 1% of those to suffer severe adverse reactions in the following years, for which they would be liable to claim compensation of £120,000 each from the UK government (not the vaccine manufacturers; they have a legal indemnity). That would cost £60 billion before factoring in potential lost tax revenue or cost of treatment etc.
https://www.gov.uk/vaccine-damage-payment (https://www.gov.uk/vaccine-damage-payment)
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/government-to-add-covid-19-to-vaccine-damage-payments-scheme (https://www.gov.uk/government/news/government-to-add-covid-19-to-vaccine-damage-payments-scheme)
Selective vaccination which weighs up risks/gains and only targets the elderly/vulnerable could still come a good distance towards achieving the desired outcome, but without the risk of the above scenario unfolding on a disastrous scale. Furthermore if no such scenario as the above does unfold there will be many people happy to be vaccinated at a later date.
Quote from: Jim© on December 18, 2020, 02:45:55 PMWhat is to stop the 'most at risk people' declining if they wish to?Quote from: mrmicawbers on December 18, 2020, 01:51:14 PM
Yes that may help if all the group's you talk about take the vaccine but as you can see from some on here they are not willing to do so.
I agree with taking the vaccine and will do as soon as I'm offered (low risk group as still south of 50), however...
If those that chose not to take it contract the disease, thankfully they won't be able to pass it on to the most at risk people (who've been vacc'd) but can and will to those that won't yet have been vacc'd. It's a huge issue as it'll serve only to prolong the health hardships that people face, but also the economic ones too.
Quote from: Southcoastffc on December 18, 2020, 03:37:27 PMQuote from: Jim© on December 18, 2020, 02:45:55 PMWhat is to stop the 'most at risk people' declining if they wish to?Quote from: mrmicawbers on December 18, 2020, 01:51:14 PM
Yes that may help if all the group's you talk about take the vaccine but as you can see from some on here they are not willing to do so.
I agree with taking the vaccine and will do as soon as I'm offered (low risk group as still south of 50), however...
If those that chose not to take it contract the disease, thankfully they won't be able to pass it on to the most at risk people (who've been vacc'd) but can and will to those that won't yet have been vacc'd. It's a huge issue as it'll serve only to prolong the health hardships that people face, but also the economic ones too.
Quote from: Southcoastffc on December 18, 2020, 03:37:27 PMQuote from: Jim© on December 18, 2020, 02:45:55 PMWhat is to stop the 'most at risk people' declining if they wish to?Quote from: mrmicawbers on December 18, 2020, 01:51:14 PM
Yes that may help if all the group's you talk about take the vaccine but as you can see from some on here they are not willing to do so.
I agree with taking the vaccine and will do as soon as I'm offered (low risk group as still south of 50), however...
If those that chose not to take it contract the disease, thankfully they won't be able to pass it on to the most at risk people (who've been vacc'd) but can and will to those that won't yet have been vacc'd. It's a huge issue as it'll serve only to prolong the health hardships that people face, but also the economic ones too.
Quote from: Twig on December 18, 2020, 03:30:05 PM
To be accurate all bar one manufacturer has legal indemnity.
Quote from: Twig on December 18, 2020, 03:30:05 PM
And your figures are pure speculation.
Quote from: Twig on December 18, 2020, 03:30:05 PM
But to be frank £60 bil is chicken poo compared to the damage to the global economy.
Quote from: Twig on December 18, 2020, 03:30:05 PM
Global debt crises, pension funds underfunded, unit funds underperforming, corporate debt and bankruptcies, rising unemployment, long term stagflation. And then the dire social impact of all that economic disaster. That's what scares me. And that broader picture is part of the reason (alongside the health benefits), why I argue we have a social responsibility to take the vaccine.
Quote from: MikeTheCubed on December 18, 2020, 04:28:14 PM
For the elderly & vulnerable the health benefit of the vaccine eclipses the risk, but as you go down the age groups that benefit gradually dwindles to nothing, with no guarantee that the vaccine will even prevent them from becoming contagious.
Quote from: Statto on December 19, 2020, 12:50:46 AMBut at any age, there's a risk, of dying or ending up in ICU or developing long Covid. At the age of say 25, that risk may be lower, say 1 in 10,000 or something like that, but the risk of dying from taking the vaccine is clearly even lower still, given tens of thousands of people have had it without it killing them already. It seems totally inconsistent to me to say, on the one hand, "I don't care about the virus because it has a 99.5% survival rate', but on the other hand, 'I'm scared of taking a vaccine because there's a 0.000001% chance it will harm me.'
Quote from: MikeTheCubed on December 19, 2020, 03:22:10 AM
The key difference is that the risks attached to the virus can be reliably quantified at this time, whereas potential long-term risks attached to the vaccine are still a relative unknown.
Quote from: blingo on December 19, 2020, 10:19:32 AMLots of what's ifs .What if you contract it and pass it round when you carry on as normal when things open up as you plan to do.What if you contract it and die and even worse spend a month in icu before it kills you.
2014 on vaccines for FLU.
https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2014/12/novartis-flu-vaccine-hold-italy-after-suspicious-deaths.
Why are the number of flu cases not reported everyday? How many people have died from flu since this started?
Protect the elderly and the vulnerable and let everyone else get on with life. The Governments have ROYALLY screwed up and the WHO worse.
You can not prosecute the firms making the vaccines? Why not? If they are so sure that its safe? Government inadequacies will kill far more people than this virus will. They will also leave many mentally scarred, many in abject poverty, and the world economies in tatters.
My daughter in law caught covid, yet my son living in the same house did not. So I too have first hand experience of c19.
Why did the Chinese and WHO not shut down international borders last December?
Why did the WHO say that masks were not needed then change their mind?
Why are there curfews in place, does c19 switch off after say 6pm?
So many questions without answers here and no one takes responsability for any of it. If you want to have a go at anyone, blame world governments for failing to act sooner allowing the spread and for destroying their countries economies over a virus with a 99.7% survival rate.
I can't believe more people do not question these actions.
There are far more questions than answers here and im sorry but im not convinced at all.
Quote from: toshes mate on December 19, 2020, 10:49:45 AM
Has the Evidence of Asymptomatic Spread of COVID-19 been Significantly Overstated? by Dr Clare Craig FRCPath and Jonathan Engler MBChB LLB (12.20)
Abstract
Evidence of transmission of SARS-CoV-2 from patients who remain asymptomatic (as opposed to pre-symptomatic) is found in a body of numerous meta-analyses. Evidence of asymptomatic transmission has been based on only a handful of instances which themselves are questionable. The existence of transmission of SARS-CoV-2 from asymptomatic individuals has become an accepted truth but the evidence for this phenomenon being anything other than mistaken interpretation of false positive test results is weak ...
Seek out the whole paper which can be searched for if you are interested in the science rather than the hyperbole.
Quote from: Statto on December 15, 2020, 11:23:50 AM
But let's not rewrite the past. In mid-March it wasn't just us, but Germany and all our other peers, who weren't closing borders, weren't mandating masks, weren't even contemplating a lockdown etc. All the talk then was just about letting the virus run it's course like a bad flu season. IIRC it only really kicked off when the Imperial College modelling came out showing the proportion of people that were going unto ICU and how that would overwhelm hospitals. Easy to say now we should have done this or that sooner but we didn't know then what we know now. Even in relation to masks the scientific advice was inconsistent.
Also IMO there's a chance that in further time, once the deaths stop and the economic damage sets in, the pendulum will swing the other way and people will start saying we should never have done any of the things we've done in the last 9 months, we should have just carried on as normal and taken it on the chin in March.
Quote from: Logicalman on December 19, 2020, 11:45:43 AMA reasonable summary which really states that nobody knows but should one assumption trump all other assumptions?Quote from: toshes mate on December 19, 2020, 10:49:45 AM
Has the Evidence of Asymptomatic Spread of COVID-19 been Significantly Overstated? by Dr Clare Craig FRCPath and Jonathan Engler MBChB LLB (12.20)
Abstract
Evidence of transmission of SARS-CoV-2 from patients who remain asymptomatic (as opposed to pre-symptomatic) is found in a body of numerous meta-analyses. Evidence of asymptomatic transmission has been based on only a handful of instances which themselves are questionable. The existence of transmission of SARS-CoV-2 from asymptomatic individuals has become an accepted truth but the evidence for this phenomenon being anything other than mistaken interpretation of false positive test results is weak ...
Seek out the whole paper which can be searched for if you are interested in the science rather than the hyperbole.
I have read this paper, and found that it has an issue with it's basis of the meaning of asymptomatic.
"This paper reviews the evidence that people who are asymptomatic (defined in this paper as not only having no symptoms but also never developing symptoms) are capable of carrying SARS-CoV-2 and infecting others. This must be clearly distinguished from pre-symptomatic – there is evidence that some patients can be infectious for a brief period before developing symptoms."
This interpretation is an exact and narrow medical one, that excludes the alternate of pre-symptomatic.
They are correct, though, in the same way that laymen might refer to a common term to cover a wider meaning of related items, then we have come to understand the term asymptomatic to include both true asymptomatic and pre-symptomatic, by simply meaning that it is a condition at which time there are no symptoms present, notwithstanding they may or may not appear in due course. Medical professionals do tend to dumb down certain terms so that the general public can more easily identify a meaning, even if that is not strictly medically accurate.
The paper even falls into this trap itself in the introduction, by stating "Many of the world's economies have been seriously damaged on the basis of alleged evidence that people with no symptoms can spread SARS-CoV-2." Surely they do mean truly asymptomatic people, don't they, because pre-symptomatic people also show so signs of symptoms.
It does concern me that this article fails to take that into account, and that such titles (headlines) like this impacts the truth of pre-symptomatic infections, simply because people do not differentiate between the two. Overall, the paper does not fully exonerate truly asymptomatic infection, but simply points out the various studies have failed to adhere to that differentiation.
Quote from: mrmicawbers on December 19, 2020, 10:47:46 AMQuote from: blingo on December 19, 2020, 10:19:32 AMLots of what's ifs .What if you contract it and pass it round when you carry on as normal when things open up as you plan to do.What if you contract it and die and even worse spend a month in icu before it kills you.
2014 on vaccines for FLU.
https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2014/12/novartis-flu-vaccine-hold-italy-after-suspicious-deaths.
Why are the number of flu cases not reported everyday? How many people have died from flu since this started?
Protect the elderly and the vulnerable and let everyone else get on with life. The Governments have ROYALLY screwed up and the WHO worse.
You can not prosecute the firms making the vaccines? Why not? If they are so sure that its safe? Government inadequacies will kill far more people than this virus will. They will also leave many mentally scarred, many in abject poverty, and the world economies in tatters.
My daughter in law caught covid, yet my son living in the same house did not. So I too have first hand experience of c19.
Why did the Chinese and WHO not shut down international borders last December?
Why did the WHO say that masks were not needed then change their mind?
Why are there curfews in place, does c19 switch off after say 6pm?
So many questions without answers here and no one takes responsability for any of it. If you want to have a go at anyone, blame world governments for failing to act sooner allowing the spread and for destroying their countries economies over a virus with a 99.7% survival rate.
I can't believe more people do not question these actions.
There are far more questions than answers here and im sorry but im not convinced at all.
Quote from: Statto on December 19, 2020, 10:45:29 AMQuote from: MikeTheCubed on December 19, 2020, 03:22:10 AM
The key difference is that the risks attached to the virus can be reliably quantified at this time, whereas potential long-term risks attached to the vaccine are still a relative unknown.
Sorry but how do you come to that conclusion?
All we know at the moment is that if 10,000 people catch the virus, around 50 will die and several hundred will be severely ill in the near term. As to long-term effects (long Covid, permanent lung damage etc) we don't know anything for sure, because it's a novel virus. We'll know more in time.
Whereas if 10,000 take the vaccine, none will die or be severely ill in the near term. As to the long-term effects, there's no evidence or reasoning that it'll have any, but of course we can't know for sure because again, it's a novel treatment.
Now I could perhaps understand some mild concern about the vaccine but there is no way you can bend logic or numbers to make taking it seem more risky than catching the virus.
Quote from: toshes mate on December 19, 2020, 12:17:53 PMQuote from: Logicalman on December 19, 2020, 11:45:43 AMA reasonable summary which really states that nobody knows but should one assumption trump all other assumptions?Quote from: toshes mate on December 19, 2020, 10:49:45 AM
Has the Evidence of Asymptomatic Spread of COVID-19 been Significantly Overstated? by Dr Clare Craig FRCPath and Jonathan Engler MBChB LLB (12.20)
Abstract
Evidence of transmission of SARS-CoV-2 from patients who remain asymptomatic (as opposed to pre-symptomatic) is found in a body of numerous meta-analyses. Evidence of asymptomatic transmission has been based on only a handful of instances which themselves are questionable. The existence of transmission of SARS-CoV-2 from asymptomatic individuals has become an accepted truth but the evidence for this phenomenon being anything other than mistaken interpretation of false positive test results is weak ...
Seek out the whole paper which can be searched for if you are interested in the science rather than the hyperbole.
I have read this paper, and found that it has an issue with it's basis of the meaning of asymptomatic.
"This paper reviews the evidence that people who are asymptomatic (defined in this paper as not only having no symptoms but also never developing symptoms) are capable of carrying SARS-CoV-2 and infecting others. This must be clearly distinguished from pre-symptomatic – there is evidence that some patients can be infectious for a brief period before developing symptoms."
This interpretation is an exact and narrow medical one, that excludes the alternate of pre-symptomatic.
They are correct, though, in the same way that laymen might refer to a common term to cover a wider meaning of related items, then we have come to understand the term asymptomatic to include both true asymptomatic and pre-symptomatic, by simply meaning that it is a condition at which time there are no symptoms present, notwithstanding they may or may not appear in due course. Medical professionals do tend to dumb down certain terms so that the general public can more easily identify a meaning, even if that is not strictly medically accurate.
The paper even falls into this trap itself in the introduction, by stating "Many of the world's economies have been seriously damaged on the basis of alleged evidence that people with no symptoms can spread SARS-CoV-2." Surely they do mean truly asymptomatic people, don't they, because pre-symptomatic people also show so signs of symptoms.
It does concern me that this article fails to take that into account, and that such titles (headlines) like this impacts the truth of pre-symptomatic infections, simply because people do not differentiate between the two. Overall, the paper does not fully exonerate truly asymptomatic infection, but simply points out the various studies have failed to adhere to that differentiation.
I also considered that what they had struggled with is proving what 'asymptomatic' means, period, since you can only know that after the event i.e. you get ill or you don't, and if you don't get ill then how do you prove you transmitted the disease without a really good and reliable test saying you had Covid-19 on the day an infected person caught it from you. They sought to do so using the wealth of papers that were claiming to have found asymptomatic transmissions when there was very little reliable evidence (other than circumstantial) on very small numbers of cases and in reality suggested that if it is possible to transmit the disease asymptomatically then it happens very rarely.
For the pre-symptomatic the situation gets even more difficult since what is the period between infection and being symptomatic, does it vary considerably between people and, since it is anecdotal, is it also too subjective? But I do feel they make the point that accurate testing is a number one priority for any test and rather than ramp up the numbers tested governments should be concentrating on the quality of the test regime and not the quantity of tests. If we don't do this we are never going to know anything solid about how transmissions occur, when, and why.
This is why I believe the kind of forensic detail the Iceland test and trace system contains means they can understand and demonstrate these factors much better than many, and, as far as I can tell, they had no asymptomatic infections.
Quote from: MikeTheCubed on December 19, 2020, 05:05:32 PM
According to data published by the ONS (https://www.ons.gov.uk/file?uri=%2Fpeoplepopulationandcommunity%2Fbirthsdeathsandmarriages%2Fdeaths%2Fdatasets%2Fweeklyprovisionalfiguresondeathsregisteredinenglandandwales%2F2020/publishedweek492020.xlsx) the total number of men within England & Wales in my age group (30 - 34) attributed to a Covid death up until December 4th is 63.
If we assume that the official number of detected cases (1.8 million in England & Wales, so let's say 900,000 men) represents the real number of cases, extrapolating from that would give approximately a 1 in 14,285 chance of a Covid infection resulting in a death within my age group.
Of course the real number of cases is several times higher than the detected number of cases, especially as most people are asymptomatic, but for the sake of argument if we take that bare minimum number, if there was a potential fatal reaction to the vaccine with an equal chance of occurring it could have very easily evaded the clinical trials in their relatively short scale & time period.
Quote from: toshes mate on December 20, 2020, 11:19:59 AM
The WHO have issued a medical alert:
"The probability that a person who has a positive result (SARS-CoV-2 detected) is truly infected with SARS-CoV-2 decreases as positivity rate decreases, irrespective of the assay specificity. Therefore, healthcare providers are encouraged to take into consideration testing results along with clinical signs and symptoms, confirmed status of any contacts, etc.
Users of RT-PCR reagents should read the IFU (instructions for use) carefully to determine if manual adjustment of the PCR positivity threshold is necessary to account for any background noise which may lead to a specimen with a high cycle threshold (Ct) value result being interpreted as a positive result. The design principle of RT-PCR means that for patients with high levels of circulating virus (viral load), relatively few cycles will be needed to detect virus and so the Ct value will be low. Conversely, when specimens return a high Ct value, it means that many cycles were required to detect virus. In some circumstances, the distinction between background noise and actual presence of the target virus is difficult to ascertain. Thus, the IFU will state how to interpret specimens at or near the limit for PCR positivity. In some cases, the IFU will state that the cut-off should be manually adjusted to ensure that specimens with high Ct values are not incorrectly assigned SARS-CoV-2 detected due to background noise."
Quote from: blingo on December 20, 2020, 11:33:55 AMIn a nutshell for the many tests that have been questioned by experts since PCR was adapted as the first testing regime. In the UK, as an example, the Ct value for positivity has been regularly reported to be above 30 when that number has been recognised as the threshold for reliabilty.Quote from: toshes mate on December 20, 2020, 11:19:59 AM
The WHO have issued a medical alert:
"The probability that a person who has a positive result (SARS-CoV-2 detected) is truly infected with SARS-CoV-2 decreases as positivity rate decreases, irrespective of the assay specificity. Therefore, healthcare providers are encouraged to take into consideration testing results along with clinical signs and symptoms, confirmed status of any contacts, etc.
Users of RT-PCR reagents should read the IFU (instructions for use) carefully to determine if manual adjustment of the PCR positivity threshold is necessary to account for any background noise which may lead to a specimen with a high cycle threshold (Ct) value result being interpreted as a positive result. The design principle of RT-PCR means that for patients with high levels of circulating virus (viral load), relatively few cycles will be needed to detect virus and so the Ct value will be low. Conversely, when specimens return a high Ct value, it means that many cycles were required to detect virus. In some circumstances, the distinction between background noise and actual presence of the target virus is difficult to ascertain. Thus, the IFU will state how to interpret specimens at or near the limit for PCR positivity. In some cases, the IFU will state that the cut-off should be manually adjusted to ensure that specimens with high Ct values are not incorrectly assigned SARS-CoV-2 detected due to background noise."
If i'm not mistaken, that says it's all been a cockup
Quote from: john dempsey on January 01, 2021, 02:30:54 PM
Whilst I am awaiting my jab
my wife has made me a necklace, consisting of
two free range scotch eggs and some chips
which I wear on a regular basis and
so far so good...
Quote from: Logicalman on January 01, 2021, 09:13:25 PM
Just as an aside to the vaccine shots, comes a story from California this past week.
A Nurse got the first jab, 7 days later presented with Covid symptoms, and tested positive - not from the jab it appears.
Medical experts are stating that it can take 10-14 days for the body to create the required immune reaction from the first jab, and that will account for 50% protection, with the second injection given 21 days following the first which will raise the protection to 95%.
Quote from: Statto on January 01, 2021, 09:50:16 PMIt made the news because sensationalist negative stories sell newspapers and get clicks on news pages. One of the disappointing, yet unsurprising, aspects of this Covid drama is the BBC's participation in this sort of behaviour.Quote from: Logicalman on January 01, 2021, 09:13:25 PM
Just as an aside to the vaccine shots, comes a story from California this past week.
A Nurse got the first jab, 7 days later presented with Covid symptoms, and tested positive - not from the jab it appears.
Medical experts are stating that it can take 10-14 days for the body to create the required immune reaction from the first jab, and that will account for 50% protection, with the second injection given 21 days following the first which will raise the protection to 95%.
Why did that even make the news?
Did the reporters over there think it was (a) 100% effective and (b) effective immediately?
:doh:
Quote from: The Old Count on January 02, 2021, 10:25:06 AMAgreed 100%Quote from: Statto on January 01, 2021, 09:50:16 PMIt made the news because sensationalist negative stories sell newspapers and get clicks on news pages. One of the disappointing, yet unsurprising, aspects of this Covid drama is the BBC's participation in this sort of behaviour.Quote from: Logicalman on January 01, 2021, 09:13:25 PM
Just as an aside to the vaccine shots, comes a story from California this past week.
A Nurse got the first jab, 7 days later presented with Covid symptoms, and tested positive - not from the jab it appears.
Medical experts are stating that it can take 10-14 days for the body to create the required immune reaction from the first jab, and that will account for 50% protection, with the second injection given 21 days following the first which will raise the protection to 95%.
Why did that even make the news?
Did the reporters over there think it was (a) 100% effective and (b) effective immediately?
:doh:
Quote from: The Old Count on January 02, 2021, 10:25:06 AMQuote from: Statto on January 01, 2021, 09:50:16 PMIt made the news because sensationalist negative stories sell newspapers and get clicks on news pages. One of the disappointing, yet unsurprising, aspects of this Covid drama is the BBC's participation in this sort of behaviour.Quote from: Logicalman on January 01, 2021, 09:13:25 PM
Just as an aside to the vaccine shots, comes a story from California this past week.
A Nurse got the first jab, 7 days later presented with Covid symptoms, and tested positive - not from the jab it appears.
Medical experts are stating that it can take 10-14 days for the body to create the required immune reaction from the first jab, and that will account for 50% protection, with the second injection given 21 days following the first which will raise the protection to 95%.
Why did that even make the news?
Did the reporters over there think it was (a) 100% effective and (b) effective immediately?
:doh:
Quote from: Statto on January 01, 2021, 09:50:16 PMQuote from: Logicalman on January 01, 2021, 09:13:25 PM
Just as an aside to the vaccine shots, comes a story from California this past week.
A Nurse got the first jab, 7 days later presented with Covid symptoms, and tested positive - not from the jab it appears.
Medical experts are stating that it can take 10-14 days for the body to create the required immune reaction from the first jab, and that will account for 50% protection, with the second injection given 21 days following the first which will raise the protection to 95%.
Why did that even make the news?
Did the reporters over there think it was (a) 100% effective and (b) effective immediately?
:doh:
Quote from: Logicalman on January 02, 2021, 12:34:20 PM+1Quote from: Statto on January 01, 2021, 09:50:16 PMQuote from: Logicalman on January 01, 2021, 09:13:25 PM
Just as an aside to the vaccine shots, comes a story from California this past week.
A Nurse got the first jab, 7 days later presented with Covid symptoms, and tested positive - not from the jab it appears.
Medical experts are stating that it can take 10-14 days for the body to create the required immune reaction from the first jab, and that will account for 50% protection, with the second injection given 21 days following the first which will raise the protection to 95%.
Why did that even make the news?
Did the reporters over there think it was (a) 100% effective and (b) effective immediately?
:doh:
It made new simply because, especially in the US, and likely other countries, the information surrounding the effectiveness of the vaccine, has not been made totally clear, especially with the massive disinformation carried via SM.
Reinforcement of actual facts such as these often need to be repeated to fight against the negativity and often ignorance surrounding the whole issue of the virus and the vaccines.
Quote from: MikeTheCubed on December 17, 2020, 02:37:09 PM
Imagine being threatened with societal ostracization for not taking an experimental vaccine for a virus that has a ~+99% survival rate, when it's not even known whether the vaccine will prevent contagiousness.
Quote from: toshes mate on January 13, 2021, 11:58:47 AMGood effort... my Father-in-law is in his late 80s and has just had his 2nd jab.... he cannot wait to get back out and about. Scarborough has a very high percentage of older people, and the local hospital is doing 8 people (cubicals) every 10 mins from 8am to 8pm.... not many people not turning up, which is great. They are also doing Hospital staff, Police, Fire fighters, Ambulance staff etc.... luckily quite a few people have volunteered to help also... driving older people to get their jabs.
I have had my first Pfizer/BioNTech jab this morning courtesy of my GP surgery which has served me so well in the last twenty odd years in a very well organised operation where I saw at least twenty people being vaccinated every fifteen minutes (the resting period after the jab) or so.
Quote from: Berserker on January 03, 2021, 06:59:24 PMThey are vaccinating everyone regardless of COVID-19 history but it does seem to be another postcode lottery dependent upon local service availability. I hope all of you, especially those in vulnerable groups, get sorted soon because I was very surprised to get my jab offer so quickly but I do belong to a highly regarded GP practice with excellent staffing.
I asked the nurse who perioically takes my blood if I would get the vacine as I had Covid in October. She said they would be vacinating people who already had it. Although I haven't read anything to that affect so still not sure if this is the case
Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk
Quote from: blingo on January 13, 2021, 01:54:24 PM
Im still very much in the im not getting injected camp. I honestly believe that no government can control a virus. I know it exists, my Aunt died of it two days ago, no amount of lockdown will stop this. It may delay it, but that is all. Herd immunity is the only way out of it.
Quote from: filham on January 13, 2021, 11:47:53 AM
I am in my eighties and have had several letters and emails warning me to stay at home and shield as I am defined as clinically at risk. My wife is also in her eighties but 3 years younger than me and has had no shielding warnings.
As yet I have received no vaccine offer but my younger wife has been given options of a vaccine at Central London, Guildford, Bristol or Birmingham. The nearest to our home in Shepperton is Guildford , a round trip of some 30 miles.
Oh, we are warned that there are no toilets at Guildford so if we may need a pee we had best select one of the other sites.
Meanwhile we read in the media that we are not to travel far from home.
Quote from: Fulham Tup North on January 13, 2021, 12:11:53 PMQuote from: toshes mate on January 13, 2021, 11:58:47 AMGood effort... my Father-in-law is in his late 80s and has just had his 2nd jab.... he cannot wait to get back out and about. Scarborough has a very high percentage of older people, and the local hospital is doing 8 people (cubicals) every 10 mins from 8am to 8pm.... not many people not turning up, which is great. They are also doing Hospital staff, Police, Fire fighters, Ambulance staff etc.... luckily quite a few people have volunteered to help also... driving older people to get their jabs.
I have had my first Pfizer/BioNTech jab this morning courtesy of my GP surgery which has served me so well in the last twenty odd years in a very well organised operation where I saw at least twenty people being vaccinated every fifteen minutes (the resting period after the jab) or so.
Every town / City will have different processes and issues, but locally it seems to be going very well so far 👍🙏🤞 Good luck everyone COYW
Quote from: mrmicawbers on January 13, 2021, 04:05:39 PM
I see they are trialling the Vaccine Passport to be shown when entering various establishments going forward apparently.Good thing in my opinion may help people sitting on the fence that having a jab is in their interest.I have had covid but feel it is my civic duty to take the vaccine and would advise everyone to do so when they are asked.The only way out of this horrible situation in my opinion and it cant come quick enough.
Quote from: Holders on January 13, 2021, 04:38:57 PMQuote from: mrmicawbers on January 13, 2021, 04:05:39 PM
I see they are trialling the Vaccine Passport to be shown when entering various establishments going forward apparently.Good thing in my opinion may help people sitting on the fence that having a jab is in their interest.I have had covid but feel it is my civic duty to take the vaccine and would advise everyone to do so when they are asked.The only way out of this horrible situation in my opinion and it cant come quick enough.
Contrasting information on this: today minister Zahawi denied that there were plans for it, yet it went out to tender a couple of weeks ago.
I've no axe to grind here, can see arguments either way, but something doesn't add up.
Quote from: Statto on January 13, 2021, 04:15:48 PMQuote from: filham on January 13, 2021, 11:47:53 AM
I am in my eighties and have had several letters and emails warning me to stay at home and shield as I am defined as clinically at risk. My wife is also in her eighties but 3 years younger than me and has had no shielding warnings.
As yet I have received no vaccine offer but my younger wife has been given options of a vaccine at Central London, Guildford, Bristol or Birmingham. The nearest to our home in Shepperton is Guildford , a round trip of some 30 miles.
Oh, we are warned that there are no toilets at Guildford so if we may need a pee we had best select one of the other sites.
Meanwhile we read in the media that we are not to travel far from home.
If you go on Twitter the usual mob who've had an axe to grind with this government since June 2016 are now turning their attention to the fact the vaccine isn't being administered 24/7 ad claiming their 94-year-old grandmothers would gladly make their way to a vaccine venue at 3am if necessary. Then on here, complaints about the venue being 15 miles away and not having toilets. Just goes to show the govt cannot win.
Quote from: MikeTheCubed on January 13, 2021, 04:45:27 PMQuote from: Holders on January 13, 2021, 04:38:57 PMQuote from: mrmicawbers on January 13, 2021, 04:05:39 PM
I see they are trialling the Vaccine Passport to be shown when entering various establishments going forward apparently.Good thing in my opinion may help people sitting on the fence that having a jab is in their interest.I have had covid but feel it is my civic duty to take the vaccine and would advise everyone to do so when they are asked.The only way out of this horrible situation in my opinion and it cant come quick enough.
Contrasting information on this: today minister Zahawi denied that there were plans for it, yet it went out to tender a couple of weeks ago.
I've no axe to grind here, can see arguments either way, but something doesn't add up.
It hasn't been taken off the table. The language has always been on the lines of "there are currently no plans for it".
I don't currently have any plans to go to the pub. But as soon as they re-open I'll definitely go there.
Quote from: Statto on January 13, 2021, 04:15:48 PMQuote from: filham on January 13, 2021, 11:47:53 AM
I am in my eighties and have had several letters and emails warning me to stay at home and shield as I am defined as clinically at risk. My wife is also in her eighties but 3 years younger than me and has had no shielding warnings.
As yet I have received no vaccine offer but my younger wife has been given options of a vaccine at Central London, Guildford, Bristol or Birmingham. The nearest to our home in Shepperton is Guildford , a round trip of some 30 miles.
Oh, we are warned that there are no toilets at Guildford so if we may need a pee we had best select one of the other sites.
Meanwhile we read in the media that we are not to travel far from home.
If you go on Twitter the usual mob who've had an axe to grind with this government since June 2016 are now turning their attention to the fact the vaccine isn't being administered 24/7 ad claiming their 94-year-old grandmothers would gladly make their way to a vaccine venue at 3am if necessary. Then on here, complaints about the venue being 15 miles away and not having toilets. Just goes to show the govt cannot win.
Quote from: davew on February 16, 2021, 04:42:34 PM
Had my jab on Saturday, headache most of Sunday morning and violently sick (1st time in about 15 years) 10pm Sunday night, was it due to side effects of the vaccine or the excitement of seeing Fulham win which was a real tonic? It wasn't due to drinking!!!!
Quote from: Holders on February 16, 2021, 04:48:24 PMGood luck with your jab, could be 2 more wins before then!Quote from: davew on February 16, 2021, 04:42:34 PM
Had my jab on Saturday, headache most of Sunday morning and violently sick (1st time in about 15 years) 10pm Sunday night, was it due to side effects of the vaccine or the excitement of seeing Fulham win which was a real tonic? It wasn't due to drinking!!!!
Dave, it's probably the effects of drinking after a Fulham win but anno domini means that you've forgotten about that.
I've got mine scheduled for Saturday late pm. If we win again I won't care how sick I am.
Quote from: flyingfish on December 14, 2020, 10:12:59 AMAll over 90's should have heard some time ago and have been advised to contact their medical centre if they haven't, something has gone wrong.
Interesting. I was an outpatient at St Georges last week and I walked past a vaccine clinic set up.
Do you mind if I ask - are you n a group identified as 'vulnerable'? Just wondering how this is all working as my in-laws in their 90s (but not out patients anywhere or in a care home) haven;t heard anything yet.
Quote from: gang on February 17, 2021, 09:50:38 AM
Hi Bill, what part of Lincoln do you live in? When the pubs open we should meet to celebrate, we may even know each other already. Stranger things happen.
Quote from: bill taylors apprentice on February 16, 2021, 11:27:51 PM
I assume that living in Lincoln, a sparsely populated part of the country they got the 70 plus done ahead of schedule and moved on to the next group i.e. me.
I would also say that since moving from the south 6 years ago, places like Lincoln may not benefit from the resources of the big cities but things tend to get done more efficiently here and people can be relied on.
Quote from: Andy S on February 16, 2021, 10:31:45 PM
My vaccine Astra Zeneca was given to me last Friday and there have been no after affects. That was the first jab. I've seen on the tv that the French are suggesting that if like me you have already had COVID -19 you may not need a second dose. Let's wait and see. Several other friends are also fine following their jab but my twin brother was mildly ill for 24 hours
Quote from: toshes mate on March 05, 2021, 09:17:23 AM
Several sources of research suggest obesity has a major effect on infection rates by respiratory viruses. Countries where populations are normally well within BMI (Body Mass Index) optimums of less than 30 and greater than 15 (for adults) seem to be healthier and less likely to be infected.
Looks like there may be diet incentives coming from the government sometime soon and whilst not replacing vaccination could be a much healthier way to herd immunity in the future.
Quote from: Statto on March 05, 2021, 03:15:40 PMQuote from: toshes mate on March 05, 2021, 09:17:23 AM
Several sources of research suggest obesity has a major effect on infection rates by respiratory viruses. Countries where populations are normally well within BMI (Body Mass Index) optimums of less than 30 and greater than 15 (for adults) seem to be healthier and less likely to be infected.
Looks like there may be diet incentives coming from the government sometime soon and whilst not replacing vaccination could be a much healthier way to herd immunity in the future.
That was pretty obvious from day 1 surely
Fat chance
Quote from: Statto on March 05, 2021, 03:15:40 PMYes it would seem so and it is interesting that the World Obesity Foundation used WHO's World Obesity Day both last year and this to signal that if you are overweight you will become more susceptible to seasonal 'flu than simply via age alone. The recent research paper by John Hopkins Coronavirus Observation Centre on obesity may therefore be placed in the virtue signalling category. However, there are research papers which have concentrated on weight alone and it is a risk similar to 'tobacco causes early death' advice.Quote from: toshes mate on March 05, 2021, 09:17:23 AM
Several sources of research suggest obesity has a major effect on infection rates by respiratory viruses. Countries where populations are normally well within BMI (Body Mass Index) optimums of less than 30 and greater than 15 (for adults) seem to be healthier and less likely to be infected.
Looks like there may be diet incentives coming from the government sometime soon and whilst not replacing vaccination could be a much healthier way to herd immunity in the future.
That was pretty obvious from day 1 surely
Quote from: ALG01 on March 05, 2021, 03:29:51 PM
I had mine three weeks ago today so that means I should be protected quite well.... I hope so.
With luck i will have the second jab in toime to go to cyprus.. I will not go but the jab will be in time.
I will hapopy to go for a walk on Brighton beach, we haven't been anywhere for a year now!
Quote from: blingo on March 15, 2021, 08:28:13 PM
Has anyone changed their minds about the vaccine with what's going on with blood clots?
I'm still going to wait.
Quote from: blingo on March 15, 2021, 08:28:13 PM
Has anyone changed their minds about the vaccine with what's going on with blood clots?
I'm still going to wait.
Quote from: blingo on March 15, 2021, 08:28:13 PM
Has anyone changed their minds about the vaccine with what's going on with blood clots?
I'm still going to wait.
Quote from: cookieg on March 15, 2021, 10:08:43 PMYou could be right... looking at the WHO data, 40 people out of 10 million, numbers are less than you would expect during a non vaccine year... it is all quite suspicious??Quote from: blingo on March 15, 2021, 08:28:13 PM
Has anyone changed their minds about the vaccine with what's going on with blood clots?
I'm still going to wait.
Europe has although I can't help thinking that this is a convenient excuse for their mismanagement in signing contracts for vaccines early on.
Quote from: blingo on March 15, 2021, 08:28:13 PM
Has anyone changed their minds about the vaccine with what's going on with blood clots?
I'm still going to wait.
Quote from: blingo on March 15, 2021, 08:28:13 PMHad mine 4 weeks ago and looking forward to receiving the second dose. If some EU countries are possibly unduly worrying about the AZ vaccine then that should mean that there is more available for the UK and other countries in the short term. Who really knows if it is safe or not, you take the vaccine and you take your chances!
Has anyone changed their minds about the vaccine with what's going on with blood clots?
I'm still going to wait.
Quote from: sarnian on March 15, 2021, 11:09:24 PMThey will be miles behind us by then, I agree about their failings in procuring the vaccine but not your other points.
The European Union mucked up their purchase of vaccines, are jealous of the way the UK has tackled vaccination and they are short of supplies. They are looking for excuses to delay things until they receive enough stock to vaccinate their citizens at a closer rate to the UK.
Quote from: sarnian on March 15, 2021, 11:09:24 PM
The European Union mucked up their purchase of vaccines, are jealous of the way the UK has tackled vaccination and they are short of supplies. They are looking for excuses to delay things until they receive enough stock to vaccinate their citizens at a closer rate to the UK.
Quote from: FulhamStu on March 16, 2021, 10:53:15 AM
This is typical politics. The EU and big EU countries within should be ashamed of themselves. Get the bloody vaccine and be safe to yourself and others. If you refuse, when restrictions are lifted, continue to stay at home.
Quote from: cookieg on March 15, 2021, 10:08:43 PM+1Quote from: blingo on March 15, 2021, 08:28:13 PM
Has anyone changed their minds about the vaccine with what's going on with blood clots?
I'm still going to wait.
Europe has although I can't help thinking that this is a convenient excuse for their mismanagement in signing contracts for vaccines early on.
Quote from: Steeeeeeeeeed on March 16, 2021, 01:04:45 PM
I'm 48 and live in North London and had an "estimate" of my first jab to be in July.
I just received an invite by text (from my GPs number) to book my first jab for this Saturday (20th March), which I booked straight away. So rather impressed with that.
I didnt seem to be able to book another day, and only had about 12 time slots to choose from, so maybe they are giving folk like me a chance to get one early on a first come first served basis.
My flatmate had both her jabs before the end of January, she works in a care home and they were probably going to have to close it if she and some of her colleagues didn't get it at the time. Fair play to her she's working 6 days a week in there.
Quote from: Holders on March 16, 2021, 01:13:38 PMQuote from: Steeeeeeeeeed on March 16, 2021, 01:04:45 PM
I'm 48 and live in North London and had an "estimate" of my first jab to be in July.
I just received an invite by text (from my GPs number) to book my first jab for this Saturday (20th March), which I booked straight away. So rather impressed with that.
I didnt seem to be able to book another day, and only had about 12 time slots to choose from, so maybe they are giving folk like me a chance to get one early on a first come first served basis.
My flatmate had both her jabs before the end of January, she works in a care home and they were probably going to have to close it if she and some of her colleagues didn't get it at the time. Fair play to her she's working 6 days a week in there.
Good for you. The main website is inviting people 55 and over so maybe your part of the country is ahead of the game. My partner (56) had hers yesterday and she got in as soon as it was opened up to her age-group.
Quote from: Dodgin on March 16, 2021, 12:37:44 PM
Just heard on BBC Politics programme that the Pfizer vaccine and the Astra jab have only a tiny differenece in blood clot stats.
Quote from: bobbo on March 16, 2021, 04:02:31 PM
But how do they know that the clots are as a result of the jabs . That percentage looks to me like it could be a natural figure that they may have got a blood clot regardless of the vaccine . But of course I don't know.
Quote from: Milo on March 16, 2021, 01:55:09 PM
Received my second Pfizer today :)
Quote from: SP on March 16, 2021, 04:38:19 PMQuote from: Milo on March 16, 2021, 01:55:09 PM
Received my second Pfizer today :)
Got my first AZ jab today, very impressed with the set-up. My wife requested the Pfizer version but was told they only had supplies to administer them for the second jab. Can't say I'm fussed which I was given.
Quote from: Milo on March 16, 2021, 01:55:09 PM
Received my second Pfizer today :)
Quote from: bobbo on March 16, 2021, 04:02:31 PM
But how do they know that the clots are as a result of the jabs . That percentage looks to me like it could be a natural figure that they may have got a blood clot regardless of the vaccine . But of course I don't know.
Quote from: bobbo on March 16, 2021, 04:02:31 PMAnd they don't either, don't worry!
But how do they know that the clots are as a result of the jabs . That percentage looks to me like it could be a natural figure that they may have got a blood clot regardless of the vaccine . But of course I don't know.
Quote from: ALG01 on March 16, 2021, 04:50:22 PMMe too, what date did you have your first dose as I want to check you are still on here when I have mine!
just my take but some countires are either very ignorant or playing politicsOR our governement is keeping information from us.
But my understannding is that the rate of blood clots in people that had the jab and those that didn't is about like for like. however, i am not always trustful of this sort of data.. I had the astra z, and am happy to have the second dose.
Quote from: blingo on March 16, 2021, 08:18:54 PM
By how much is it lower? 99.7% of people who get covid recover.
Quote from: SP on March 16, 2021, 10:44:33 PM
It seems I've developed 'Covid Toe' - that's a new one to me!
Quote from: S.F.Sorrow on March 16, 2021, 09:14:18 PMQuote from: blingo on March 16, 2021, 08:18:54 PM
By how much is it lower? 99.7% of people who get covid recover.
Unless we start seeing far more deaths following vaccinations you can probably add a couple of decimals to that figure. All vaccines have side effects and the evidence suggests that we've seen deaths from at least AstraZenaca but the risk is still FAR lower than covid.
Quote from: Plodder on March 17, 2021, 12:07:49 AMQuote from: S.F.Sorrow on March 16, 2021, 09:14:18 PMQuote from: blingo on March 16, 2021, 08:18:54 PM
By how much is it lower? 99.7% of people who get covid recover.
Unless we start seeing far more deaths following vaccinations you can probably add a couple of decimals to that figure. All vaccines have side effects and the evidence suggests that we've seen deaths from at least AstraZenaca but the risk is still FAR lower than covid.
I don't see any serious evidence to date that we have seen deaths "from AstraZeneca". A handful of people (single figures out of tens of millions worldwide) have died after being innoculated with the Astrazeneca vaccine. Since the vaccination programmes in each country began, hundreds of thousands of people have died from natural causes, and inevitably some will die shortly after being vaccinated. I'll agree that it is not possible to deny categorically the very faint possibility that vaccination was the cause of the few deaths to date, but it seems far more likely to be a coincidence than the cause. I think you wrote in an earlier message that the risk of death from Covid (exceedingly low) outweighed the risk of death from vaccination (microscopically low or non-existent), and I agree with that.
Quote from: blingo on March 17, 2021, 09:57:55 AMAgreed
We may be missing the point here. We have left the EU, there were problems with supply. The vaccine is British. Do the sums, its really not very difficult.
Masks? They have stopped nothing at all, but they have given governments a lovely little income stream, whilst screwing poor families out of the little cash they have.
Sorry people but all of this stinks to me.
Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on March 17, 2021, 07:39:28 PM
I never ever thought that one day I would walk into a bank wearing a mask.
Quote from: blingo on March 17, 2021, 09:57:55 AMHow do you know that masks stopped nothing?, if I'm talking with you face to face with a covering over my nose and mouth it's going to stop me spewing stuff all over you, whether it can stop a virus I don't know but it must be an aid, after all why do Dr's & nurses wear masks when treating patients?
We may be missing the point here. We have left the EU, there were problems with supply. The vaccine is British. Do the sums, its really not very difficult.
Masks? They have stopped nothing at all, but they have given governments a lovely little income stream, whilst screwing poor families out of the little cash they have.
Sorry people but all of this stinks to me.
Quote from: JoelH5 on March 18, 2021, 12:50:13 PMmake you right Joe,if people want conspiracy theories they should stick to Facebook and the like.Seems to me some people would be happy stuck in a permanent lockdown situation.the Probably hate the thought of the rest of the population enjoying life again.Very sad lives they must live or not live.Quote from: S.F.Sorrow on March 16, 2021, 09:11:49 PMQuote from: shepperton white on March 16, 2021, 08:26:10 PM
I think the whole EU led by the Germans are politicising the AZ vaccine because they've f..... up their whole vaccination programme. The fact is you stand a better chance of blood clots if you smoke or are giving birth. There may well be odd case but the risk is so small it's not worth worrying about. I'm 80 and couldn't wait to get my first jab. Both my wife and I had no ill affects whatsoever. My second one is at the end of the month. At the end of the day its a personal choice take it or leave it
You may get blod clots from smoking or giving birth but you won't get the extremely serious combination of blod clots, low platelet counts and internal bleeding. This is what they are finding with AZ patients (some of them have died) and there seems to be a connection. This is a very serious condition that has not been documented with Pfizer og any of the other vaccines. The risk still seems to be very low though.
wow. This post contains so many falsehoods. I work in Pharma. Firstly, they aren't "finding" this as you have said. In fact the opposite. Secondly there does not "seem to be a connection". We don't work with "seems" in pharma. We have clinical trials. These have shown there is no risk of blood clots. The amount of patients experiencing blood clots is much less prevalent than would be experienced in the general population.
ADMINS - This is a clear, clear spreading of false information which could put lives at risk by persuading others not to get the vaccine. The users post should be deleted
Quote from: Milo on March 16, 2021, 04:39:42 PMQuote from: SP on March 16, 2021, 04:38:19 PMQuote from: Milo on March 16, 2021, 01:55:09 PM
Received my second Pfizer today :)
Got my first AZ jab today, very impressed with the set-up. My wife requested the Pfizer version but was told they only had supplies to administer them for the second jab. Can't say I'm fussed which I was given.
My father had AZ and said it was like a conveyer belt. Unlike Pfizer where you hang around with a cup of tea for 15 minutes incase you keel over and die!
Quote from: blingo on March 18, 2021, 10:47:04 AMI completely understand but, if everyone were to wear a mask and it still spread then that is conclusive proof, but you have thousands of people who refuse to wear a mask, who will continue to spread the virus if they have it. Personally I wear a mask whenever I leave the house, as I have copd, diabetes, high BP, I just feel a little safer.
They are completely different masks Alfie. Did the enforcement of wearing masks stop the third wave? No. In gib we have to wear masks in certain areas but not others. We have fared no better or worse than anywhere else. Conclusion... The masks made no difference.
Quote from: Holders on March 18, 2021, 06:14:21 PMLove it
I wear a mask because I have CDO - to the uninitiated that's OCD but in alphabetical order.
Quote from: Holders on March 18, 2021, 06:18:21 PMIf they get really funky,surely we could withdraw them actually manufacturing our vaccine.Not saying we should and getting down to their level.We are letting them manufacture at non profit and is seriously much cheaper by miles compared to the rest.
I was interested today to hear it mooted that the UK and EU are expected to hit around 70% of the population vaccinated around the same time - both doses that is. It's the rollout that differs and I can see the reasoning in getting one dose in as many as possible as quickly as possible. Pity about the delay in deliveries from India, however.
Quote from: Holders on March 18, 2021, 06:14:21 PM
I wear a mask because I have CDO - to the uninitiated that's OCD but in alphabetical order.
Quote from: HV71 on March 18, 2021, 08:47:24 PMQuote from: Holders on March 18, 2021, 06:14:21 PM
I wear a mask because I have CDO - to the uninitiated that's OCD but in alphabetical order.
I just cannot stop laughing at this - brilliant truly brilliant!
Quote from: Holders on March 19, 2021, 12:04:49 AMQuote from: HV71 on March 18, 2021, 08:47:24 PMQuote from: Holders on March 18, 2021, 06:14:21 PM
I wear a mask because I have CDO - to the uninitiated that's OCD but in alphabetical order.
I just cannot stop laughing at this - brilliant truly brilliant!
What really stresses me is my membership of the DNA - the national association of dyslexics.
Quote from: blingo on March 27, 2021, 10:31:58 AM
The passports and the control it will give governments is totalitarianism. They will control everyone, and every move we make, whether we like it or not. There will no longer be any freedom of choice unless the government decides that you can have it. I never thought that our fathers and forefathers fought for our liberty in two world wars to arrive at this sorry state of affairs. You wont be able to even fart without permission. All of this for a virus in which 99.7% of people recover.
Gibraltar has very little restrictions on masks and as from today (Gib is as I write COVID FREE), all shops and restaurants are open and there are no curfews. We live next to Spain with mega restrictions and yet we have managed to keep figures low. Ninety four deaths mainly elderly residents. Common sense prevailed here, although 30,000 of the 32,000 population are now vaccinated. However the vaccination is NOT the reason we are covid free, the reason is that common sense prevailed. Remember, the vaccine does not stop you catching it or spreading it.
Blin.....fed up of all of this baloney.....go
Quote from: blingo on March 27, 2021, 10:31:58 AM
The passports and the control it will give governments is totalitarianism. They will control everyone, and every move we make, whether we like it or not. There will no longer be any freedom of choice unless the government decides that you can have it. I never thought that our fathers and forefathers fought for our liberty in two world wars to arrive at this sorry state of affairs. You wont be able to even fart without permission. All of this for a virus in which 99.7% of people recover.
Quote from: blingo on March 27, 2021, 10:31:58 AM
Gibraltar has very little restrictions on masks and as from today (Gib is as I write COVID FREE), all shops and restaurants are open and there are no curfews. We live next to Spain with mega restrictions and yet we have managed to keep figures low. Ninety four deaths mainly elderly residents. Common sense prevailed here, although 30,000 of the 32,000 population are now vaccinated. However the vaccination is NOT the reason we are covid free, the reason is that common sense prevailed. Remember, the vaccine does not stop you catching it or spreading it.
Blin.....fed up of all of this baloney.....go
Quote from: shepperton white on March 16, 2021, 11:31:01 PM
Well Sorrow in answer to your post, the French and Italians have caved in and are now approving AZ vaccine
Quote from: MikeTheCubed on March 27, 2021, 11:43:30 AMQuote from: blingo on March 27, 2021, 10:31:58 AM
The passports and the control it will give governments is totalitarianism. They will control everyone, and every move we make, whether we like it or not. There will no longer be any freedom of choice unless the government decides that you can have it. I never thought that our fathers and forefathers fought for our liberty in two world wars to arrive at this sorry state of affairs. You wont be able to even fart without permission. All of this for a virus in which 99.7% of people recover.
For much of the past year we've been bombarded with what are essentially marketing campaigns containing phrases such as "When everyone's had the jab everything can return to normal", and yet here we are with over half the adult population on the receiving end of these jabs and there's been a clear and obvious shift in this narrative. We're now being told "When everyone's had the jab don't expect everything to return to normal", the government are tendering for 2-year-long Covid advertising campaign(s) (https://www.find-tender.service.gov.uk/Notice/005534-2021), and reportedly planning "booster" jabs for the over-70s by September. It began as "3 weeks to flatten the curve and protect the NHS". Whether this is a genuine health crisis or an authoritarian conspiracy it should be apparent to most by now that we're being led via a carrot dangling from a stick.Quote from: blingo on March 27, 2021, 10:31:58 AM
Gibraltar has very little restrictions on masks and as from today (Gib is as I write COVID FREE), all shops and restaurants are open and there are no curfews. We live next to Spain with mega restrictions and yet we have managed to keep figures low. Ninety four deaths mainly elderly residents. Common sense prevailed here, although 30,000 of the 32,000 population are now vaccinated. However the vaccination is NOT the reason we are covid free, the reason is that common sense prevailed. Remember, the vaccine does not stop you catching it or spreading it.
Blin.....fed up of all of this baloney.....go
I find Gibraltar's statistics unusual. Throughout the whole pandemic up until the jab was rolled out on January 10th it had reported 16 Covid deaths. Over the course of the next 30 days this toll skyrocketed up to 83. Gibraltar now finds itself #1 by a significant margin in the nations league table of Covid deaths per capita.
As for whether the jab is saving lives, I'm aware of the news stories where experts have said "clear evidence of increased antibodies/t-cells in recipients" or "clear drop in hospitalisations / deaths / positive tests in recipients", yet I don't see a clear correlation in the overall mortality figures. UK & Israel have jabbed far more per-capita than the big European countries, and yet whether you look at raw Covid deaths per-capita or excess-mortality % the UK has massively overshadowed European countries throughout much of winter, while Israel has only performed narrowly better than Germany (despite frequently jabbing 10 times as many people per-capita). Granted there are a multitude of factors which can hinder the compatibility of comparing different countries at any given point in time.
Quote from: blingo on March 27, 2021, 12:18:03 PMQuote from: MikeTheCubed on March 27, 2021, 11:43:30 AM
I find Gibraltar's statistics unusual. Throughout the whole pandemic up until the jab was rolled out on January 10th it had reported 16 Covid deaths. Over the course of the next 30 days this toll skyrocketed up to 83. Gibraltar now finds itself #1 by a significant margin in the nations league table of Covid deaths per capita.
As for whether the jab is saving lives, I'm aware of the news stories where experts have said "clear evidence of increased antibodies/t-cells in recipients" or "clear drop in hospitalisations / deaths / positive tests in recipients", yet I don't see a clear correlation in the overall mortality figures. UK & Israel have jabbed far more per-capita than the big European countries, and yet whether you look at raw Covid deaths per-capita or excess-mortality % the UK has massively overshadowed European countries throughout much of winter, while Israel has only performed narrowly better than Germany (despite frequently jabbing 10 times as many people per-capita). Granted there are a multitude of factors which can hinder the compatibility of comparing different countries at any given point in time.
I don't think so, but still, your figures are wrong. We have had 94 deaths, inflicted by Spaniards coming over. We THEN had a mini lockdown and are now one of the only, if not THE ONLY country in the world that is covid free.
Quote from: MikeTheCubed on March 27, 2021, 12:30:34 PMQuote from: blingo on March 27, 2021, 12:18:03 PMQuote from: MikeTheCubed on March 27, 2021, 11:43:30 AM
I find Gibraltar's statistics unusual. Throughout the whole pandemic up until the jab was rolled out on January 10th it had reported 16 Covid deaths. Over the course of the next 30 days this toll skyrocketed up to 83. Gibraltar now finds itself #1 by a significant margin in the nations league table of Covid deaths per capita.
As for whether the jab is saving lives, I'm aware of the news stories where experts have said "clear evidence of increased antibodies/t-cells in recipients" or "clear drop in hospitalisations / deaths / positive tests in recipients", yet I don't see a clear correlation in the overall mortality figures. UK & Israel have jabbed far more per-capita than the big European countries, and yet whether you look at raw Covid deaths per-capita or excess-mortality % the UK has massively overshadowed European countries throughout much of winter, while Israel has only performed narrowly better than Germany (despite frequently jabbing 10 times as many people per-capita). Granted there are a multitude of factors which can hinder the compatibility of comparing different countries at any given point in time.
I don't think so, but still, your figures are wrong. We have had 94 deaths, inflicted by Spaniards coming over. We THEN had a mini lockdown and are now one of the only, if not THE ONLY country in the world that is covid free.
83 deaths as of February 10th, to be clear.
Quote from: Lighthouse on March 27, 2021, 12:41:30 PM
I know for a fact that every one on this thread will die of something.
The real mystery is why we all live the way we do and support systems that have let us down for generations.
But we all do. :005:
Quote from: blingo on March 27, 2021, 12:34:27 PMQuote from: MikeTheCubed on March 27, 2021, 12:30:34 PMQuote from: blingo on March 27, 2021, 12:18:03 PMQuote from: MikeTheCubed on March 27, 2021, 11:43:30 AM
I find Gibraltar's statistics unusual. Throughout the whole pandemic up until the jab was rolled out on January 10th it had reported 16 Covid deaths. Over the course of the next 30 days this toll skyrocketed up to 83. Gibraltar now finds itself #1 by a significant margin in the nations league table of Covid deaths per capita.
As for whether the jab is saving lives, I'm aware of the news stories where experts have said "clear evidence of increased antibodies/t-cells in recipients" or "clear drop in hospitalisations / deaths / positive tests in recipients", yet I don't see a clear correlation in the overall mortality figures. UK & Israel have jabbed far more per-capita than the big European countries, and yet whether you look at raw Covid deaths per-capita or excess-mortality % the UK has massively overshadowed European countries throughout much of winter, while Israel has only performed narrowly better than Germany (despite frequently jabbing 10 times as many people per-capita). Granted there are a multitude of factors which can hinder the compatibility of comparing different countries at any given point in time.
I don't think so, but still, your figures are wrong. We have had 94 deaths, inflicted by Spaniards coming over. We THEN had a mini lockdown and are now one of the only, if not THE ONLY country in the world that is covid free.
83 deaths as of February 10th, to be clear.
Feb 10th there were 85 deaths mainly in care homes where it swept through like fire as it has in every care home everywhere.
Quote from: MikeTheCubed on March 27, 2021, 01:04:07 PMQuote from: blingo on March 27, 2021, 12:34:27 PMQuote from: MikeTheCubed on March 27, 2021, 12:30:34 PMQuote from: blingo on March 27, 2021, 12:18:03 PMQuote from: MikeTheCubed on March 27, 2021, 11:43:30 AM
I find Gibraltar's statistics unusual. Throughout the whole pandemic up until the jab was rolled out on January 10th it had reported 16 Covid deaths. Over the course of the next 30 days this toll skyrocketed up to 83. Gibraltar now finds itself #1 by a significant margin in the nations league table of Covid deaths per capita.
As for whether the jab is saving lives, I'm aware of the news stories where experts have said "clear evidence of increased antibodies/t-cells in recipients" or "clear drop in hospitalisations / deaths / positive tests in recipients", yet I don't see a clear correlation in the overall mortality figures. UK & Israel have jabbed far more per-capita than the big European countries, and yet whether you look at raw Covid deaths per-capita or excess-mortality % the UK has massively overshadowed European countries throughout much of winter, while Israel has only performed narrowly better than Germany (despite frequently jabbing 10 times as many people per-capita). Granted there are a multitude of factors which can hinder the compatibility of comparing different countries at any given point in time.
I don't think so, but still, your figures are wrong. We have had 94 deaths, inflicted by Spaniards coming over. We THEN had a mini lockdown and are now one of the only, if not THE ONLY country in the world that is covid free.
83 deaths as of February 10th, to be clear.
Feb 10th there were 85 deaths mainly in care homes where it swept through like fire as it has in every care home everywhere.
To be clear again I'm not attempting to cast judgement on Gibraltar. What I find unusual is the timing of that surge in deaths in relation to the jab rollout. If that coincided with a surge of incoming travel from Spain that could very well have been a factor, but we're nonetheless told this jab is supposed to be providing protection.
https://www.devonlive.com/news/devon-news/nine-covid-19-deaths-exmouth-5156936 (https://www.devonlive.com/news/devon-news/nine-covid-19-deaths-exmouth-5156936)
This is a care home which had reportedly not suffered any Covid cases throughout the entire pandemic by the time the jab was rolled out to all of its residents in January. Yet it is sadly reported that between the first detection of a Covid case in February and March 12th the home has lost nearly a 3rd of its residents.
Quote from: toshes mate on March 28, 2021, 01:07:47 PM
I believe it was reported on Friday that police had arrested two members of the care home staff on suspicion of wilful neglect. A report (Telegraph?) also suggested a number of care home staff had tested positive. It should be noted that vaccination does not guarantee safety either from infection, ability to infect, illness or fatality as blingo stated earlier. Had the care home staff and residents all been vaccinated and 'immunity safe by time expired since vaccination' would the same incident have been possible? It is a discussion point at the very least.
Quote from: toshes mate on March 28, 2021, 01:07:47 PM
I believe it was reported on Friday that police had arrested two members of the care home staff on suspicion of wilful neglect. A report (Telegraph?) also suggested a number of care home staff had tested positive. It should be noted that vaccination does not guarantee safety either from infection, ability to infect, illness or fatality as blingo stated earlier. Had the care home staff and residents all been vaccinated and 'immunity safe by time expired since vaccination' would the same incident have been possible? It is a discussion point at the very least.
Quote from: Holders on March 28, 2021, 01:37:49 PM
I missed that Friday report. All of this is the more shocking as they'd avoided infection up to then.
Quote from: MikeTheCubed on March 28, 2021, 02:48:40 PMQuote from: toshes mate on March 28, 2021, 01:07:47 PM
I believe it was reported on Friday that police had arrested two members of the care home staff on suspicion of wilful neglect. A report (Telegraph?) also suggested a number of care home staff had tested positive. It should be noted that vaccination does not guarantee safety either from infection, ability to infect, illness or fatality as blingo stated earlier. Had the care home staff and residents all been vaccinated and 'immunity safe by time expired since vaccination' would the same incident have been possible? It is a discussion point at the very least.Quote from: Holders on March 28, 2021, 01:37:49 PM
I missed that Friday report. All of this is the more shocking as they'd avoided infection up to then.
The care home being investigated by police is Holmsley Care Home. The article was primarily reporting on Brandon House, a different care home.
Quote from: love4ffc on March 29, 2021, 12:15:26 AM
Here in Georgia USA the vaccine is now available to anyone over the age of 16. This is due to a good portion of the population in this state not willing to get the vaccine. Sad in my view but good for my wife and me. The wife got her first jab today and I will be getting my tomorrow, today for most reading this. Really looking forward to getting my shot. :yay:
Quote from: Milo on March 29, 2021, 12:37:12 PMPfizer, Moderna and the J&J 1 dose
Which vaccine is it in the US?
Quote from: Holders on March 29, 2021, 07:17:12 AMQuote from: love4ffc on March 29, 2021, 12:15:26 AM
Here in Georgia USA the vaccine is now available to anyone over the age of 16. This is due to a good portion of the population in this state not willing to get the vaccine. Sad in my view but good for my wife and me. The wife got her first jab today and I will be getting my tomorrow, today for most reading this. Really looking forward to getting my shot. :yay:
Good for you but regrettable overall. What do you put it down to and is the resistance in any particular demographic or grouping?
Quote from: Holders on December 14, 2020, 11:16:31 AMAbsolutely.Quote from: Twig on December 14, 2020, 11:14:30 AM
My wife and I are in category 5 and can't wait to get it. It's not just important for our protection, we both also see it as a social responsibility.
THIS.
Quote from: cottage expat on March 29, 2021, 05:27:20 PMQuote from: Holders on March 29, 2021, 07:17:12 AMQuote from: love4ffc on March 29, 2021, 12:15:26 AM
Here in Georgia USA the vaccine is now available to anyone over the age of 16. This is due to a good portion of the population in this state not willing to get the vaccine. Sad in my view but good for my wife and me. The wife got her first jab today and I will be getting my tomorrow, today for most reading this. Really looking forward to getting my shot. :yay:
Good for you but regrettable overall. What do you put it down to and is the resistance in any particular demographic or grouping?
Poorer, minority communities so far have the lowest vaccination rates. Also, a recent survey found that 46% of male Republican voters said they were not planning to get vaccinated.
Quote from: love4ffc on March 29, 2021, 12:15:26 AM
Here in Georgia USA the vaccine is now available to anyone over the age of 16. This is due to a good portion of the population in this state not willing to get the vaccine. Sad in my view but good for my wife and me. The wife got her first jab today and I will be getting my tomorrow, today for most reading this. Really looking forward to getting my shot. :yay:
Quote from: filham on March 30, 2021, 11:26:37 AM
Had our first phyzer jab 10weeks ago, eagerly awaiting notification for 2nd jab. No side effects and we are totally convinced that the more people vacinated the safer we all are.
Quote from: Holders on March 30, 2021, 10:57:58 AM
Did you not get the appointment for the second when you booked the first? Mine's on May 9th - seems ages.
Quote from: blingo on March 30, 2021, 12:39:48 PMto each their own. I see it like the flu shot, which most of us have received. Additionally, not being vaccinated against the upcoming strain changes is what I wouldn't be excited about. So I will get the poke.
I still maintain that there is no need to vaccinate the entire population for a virus with a 99.7% recovery rate. Governments and the WHO have brainwashed the majority into believing that the vaccine is the answer to everything and there are many many arguments against. Blingo still not happy about taking the jab.
Quote from: blingo on March 30, 2021, 12:39:48 PM
I still maintain that there is no need to vaccinate the entire population for a virus with a 99.7% recovery rate. Governments and the WHO have brainwashed the majority into believing that the vaccine is the answer to everything and there are many many arguments against. Blingo still not happy about taking the jab.
/quote]
Try tilling that to families who have lost loved ones or people who are suffering long covid. Personally I would rather not run the risk of being 1 of the 0.3 percent .Selfish perhaps but thats me.
Quote from: blingo on March 30, 2021, 12:39:48 PMUp to you Bring,but let the rest us get the economy up and running.If you don't think it's not worth taking have a look at France and the effect of not having a jab and many French people being anti vaxxers.
I still maintain that there is no need to vaccinate the entire population for a virus with a 99.7% recovery rate. Governments and the WHO have brainwashed the majority into believing that the vaccine is the answer to everything and there are many many arguments against. Blingo still not happy about taking the jab.
Quote from: Twig on March 30, 2021, 10:45:04 AM
Still waiting for our second jabs. We had the Pfizer one and I sense the supply has dried up a bit so goodness knows when we will be offered our second jabs. But I endorse what others are saying when its offered TAKE IT!
Quote from: Logicalman on March 30, 2021, 12:20:48 PMQuote from: Holders on March 30, 2021, 10:57:58 AM
Did you not get the appointment for the second when you booked the first? Mine's on May 9th - seems ages.
What's the spacing between first and second jabs there then? Is that for the AstraZeneca shot?
Quote from: blingo on March 30, 2021, 12:39:48 PM
I still maintain that there is no need to vaccinate the entire population for a virus with a 99.7% recovery rate. Governments and the WHO have brainwashed the majority into believing that the vaccine is the answer to everything and there are many many arguments against. Blingo still not happy about taking the jab.
Quote from: Holders on March 30, 2021, 10:57:58 AM
Did you not get the appointment for the second when you booked the first? Mine's on May 9th - seems ages.
Quote from: blingo on March 30, 2021, 12:39:48 PM
I still maintain that there is no need to vaccinate the entire population for a virus with a 99.7% recovery rate. Governments and the WHO have brainwashed the majority into believing that the vaccine is the answer to everything and there are many many arguments against. Blingo still not happy about taking the jab.
Quote from: blingo on March 30, 2021, 03:58:42 PM
I have been affected so I know. However, how many under 50s have died? Has the compulsory wearing of masks worked? All I see is governments controlling people's lives and airlines controlling whether or not you can fly. Who has the right to take people's freedom away in this day and age? Watch how, as time goes by the governments report improvements in the pandemic as economies break down to unsustainable levels. Personal thoughts are that governments screwed up big time and don't know which way to turn now to get out of it. It exists, it's a serious strain of flu but there have been worse and we have survived. Taking the vaccine won't stop you getting it or passing it on. Still too many unanswered questions for blin..... Not at all convinced.... go.
Quote from: Roberty on March 31, 2021, 05:19:20 AMQuote from: blingo on March 30, 2021, 03:58:42 PM
I have been affected so I know. However, how many under 50s have died? Has the compulsory wearing of masks worked? All I see is governments controlling people's lives and airlines controlling whether or not you can fly. Who has the right to take people's freedom away in this day and age? Watch how, as time goes by the governments report improvements in the pandemic as economies break down to unsustainable levels. Personal thoughts are that governments screwed up big time and don't know which way to turn now to get out of it. It exists, it's a serious strain of flu but there have been worse and we have survived. Taking the vaccine won't stop you getting it or passing it on. Still too many unanswered questions for blin..... Not at all convinced.... go.
Most under 50's don't die BUT they do pass it onto the over 50's who do die
Mask wearing worked in parts of Asia where it has always been the norm - here it was introduced too late to control the spread but has probably reduced the spread in indoor settings
No one is taking away your freedom but there will be restrictions to give freedom to the majority, you will still be free to choose not to be vaccinated and you will have to accept our freedom to disassociate with you.
Taking vaccine stops the most vulnerable dying, that is the point and the least vulnerable from passing it onto them
The unanswered question is - if this was a sinking ship would you wait to see if you drown or climb aboard a life boat.
BUT please feel free to continue with your beliefs and accept that the majority might want to restrict your freedom to infect them
Quote from: Deeping_white on March 30, 2021, 10:34:30 PMQuote from: blingo on March 30, 2021, 12:39:48 PM
I still maintain that there is no need to vaccinate the entire population for a virus with a 99.7% recovery rate. Governments and the WHO have brainwashed the majority into believing that the vaccine is the answer to everything and there are many many arguments against. Blingo still not happy about taking the jab.
The lockdown is what worked not the vaccine.
It's not just about the recovery rate though and that's not why you vaccinate people (it's also more like 97% because lots of people are suffering long term complications). If you stop the virus' ability to effectively spread by immunising people then you reduce the chance it can mutate and become more lethal, or reduce the chance of people catching it and passing it on so that it circulates at a level that causes problems through the whole country. By all means remain anti-vax but the proof is in the pudding that with so many people vaccinated in the UK, look how the infection and death rate is now significantly below the rest of Europe and tell me that it doesn't work
Quote from: blingo on March 30, 2021, 03:58:42 PM
I have been affected so I know. However, how many under 50s have died? Has the compulsory wearing of masks worked? All I see is governments controlling people's lives and airlines controlling whether or not you can fly. Who has the right to take people's freedom away in this day and age? Watch how, as time goes by the governments report improvements in the pandemic as economies break down to unsustainable levels. Personal thoughts are that governments screwed up big time and don't know which way to turn now to get out of it. It exists, it's a serious strain of flu but there have been worse and we have survived. Taking the vaccine won't stop you getting it or passing it on. Still too many unanswered questions for blin..... Not at all convinced.... go.
Quote from: blingo on March 31, 2021, 08:14:48 PMBelieve they thought they had first time round,when their new variant came back to bite then on their arse.
Any better or worse than anywhere else? Will they reach herd immunity before other countries?
Quote from: Plodder on April 01, 2021, 10:11:08 PM
I had my first injection (Astrazeneca) a few weeks ago with the second booked for early June. Everything we do or don't do carries a risk of some kind, but to me the risk of serious illness or death from Covid (albeit very slight) is greater than the almost negligible risk of an immediate or future complication caused by the Astrazeneca vaccine.
I can understand the "Blingo" viewpoint in terms of him assessing the relative risks differently and making his decision accordingly, even if I reach a different conclusion. However, what I can't accept is Blingo questioning whether the vaccines are effective. That flies in the face of a mountain of evidence from around the world that all the vaccines are effective in terms of making the recipient of the vaccine less likely to catch Covid 19, and reducing the likelihood of serious illness or death if he/she does catch it. This is in addition to reducing transmission among the population. Of course no vaccine offers 100% protection, but all the research and real world data shows beyond reasonable doubt that they are extremely effective. I can (whilst disagreeing with it) understand a decision not to get vaccinated because of fear of possible long term effects, but to suggest vaccines are ineffective in terms of countering Covid 19 is just plain stupid, and ignores all the evidence.
Quote from: blingo on April 01, 2021, 11:09:21 PMWhere do you think we would be Blingo if everyone decided to do what you will not?
A different view of things doesn't make someone stupid Andy. I respect your choices, you should do the same.
Quote from: blingo on April 01, 2021, 11:09:21 PMVery true. I happen to disagree with you about the vaccine Blingo but we still live in a relatively free society so wouldn't dream of criticising you for your belief. I am curious about one thing though - you said earlier that you are not happy about having a jab - does that mean you actually have already declined, or will, decline a vaccination?
A different view of things doesn't make someone stupid Andy. I respect your choices, you should do the same.
Quote from: mrmicawbers on April 02, 2021, 11:34:10 AMQuote from: blingo on April 01, 2021, 11:09:21 PMWhere do you think we would be Blingo if everyone decided to do what you will not?
A different view of things doesn't make someone stupid Andy. I respect your choices, you should do the same.
Quote from: blingo on April 02, 2021, 12:24:15 PM
I have declined it so far Mr Southcoast, and i'm going to be 65 in July and I am insulin dependant. It is my right and I have (until now) still got my freedom of speach. I have no doubt though that eventually if I want to travel, that I will have to take it. If it is working then protect the vulnerable and let the rest live normal lives. What percentage of under 60s have died from the virus? The latest in Spain now is that you have to wear a mask on the beach. That to me seems ridiculous. But that is MY opinion. The actions of governments will kill more people and put more people into poverty that covid will
Quote from: blingo on April 01, 2021, 11:09:21 PM
A different view of things doesn't make someone stupid. I respect your choices, you should do the same.
Quote from: blingo on April 02, 2021, 12:18:59 PMQuote from: mrmicawbers on April 02, 2021, 11:34:10 AMAt no point anywhere have I even suggested that you should or should not take the vaccine Mr Mic. I do however have the right to express my point of view. Whether you agree with it or not, does not make me stupid does it?Quote from: blingo on April 01, 2021, 11:09:21 PMWhere do you think we would be Blingo if everyone decided to do what you will not?
A different view of things doesn't make someone stupid Andy. I respect your choices, you should do the same.
Quote from: blingo on April 02, 2021, 12:24:15 PMThanks. Understood. The 'vulnerable ' is an interesting definition imposed, perhaps understandably by statistician, actuaries et al. I'm 70 fit as a flea, and dont consider myself vulnerable in any sense. My sister, 6 years younger, unfit, obese, died of covid last autumn. Our separate life choices led us each to where we are/were. That's freedom.
I have declined it so far Mr Southcoast, and i'm going to be 65 in July and I am insulin dependant. It is my right and I have (until now) still got my freedom of speech. I have no doubt though that eventually if I want to travel, that I will have to take it. If it is working then protect the vulnerable and let the rest live normal lives. What percentage of under 60s have died from the virus? The latest in Spain now is that you have to wear a mask on the beach. That to me seems ridiculous. But that is MY opinion. The actions of governments will kill more people and put more people into poverty that covid will
Quote from: mrmicawbers on April 02, 2021, 02:36:53 PMCheersQuote from: blingo on April 02, 2021, 12:18:59 PMQuote from: mrmicawbers on April 02, 2021, 11:34:10 AMAt no point anywhere have I even suggested that you should or should not take the vaccine Mr Mic. I do however have the right to express my point of view. Whether you agree with it or not, does not make me stupid does it?Quote from: blingo on April 01, 2021, 11:09:21 PMWhere do you think we would be Blingo if everyone decided to do what you will not?
A different view of things doesn't make someone stupid Andy. I respect your choices, you should do the same.
I have never said your stupid Blingo.I was asking you were would we be if nobody took the vaccine?
Mod: Just fixing Quotes to make it read right
Quote from: blingo on April 02, 2021, 12:24:15 PM
I have declined it so far Mr Southcoast, and i'm going to be 65 in July and I am insulin dependant. It is my right and I have (until now) still got my freedom of speech. I have no doubt though that eventually if I want to travel, that I will have to take it. If it is working then protect the vulnerable and let the rest live normal lives. What percentage of under 60s have died from the virus? The latest in Spain now is that you have to wear a mask on the beach. That to me seems ridiculous. But that is MY opinion. The actions of governments will kill more people and put more people into poverty that covid will
Quote from: Porthogs FC on March 30, 2021, 01:28:49 PMQuote from: blingo on March 30, 2021, 12:39:48 PMto each their own. I see it like the flu shot, which most of us have received. Additionally, not being vaccinated against the upcoming strain changes is what I wouldn't be excited about. So I will get the poke.
I still maintain that there is no need to vaccinate the entire population for a virus with a 99.7% recovery rate. Governments and the WHO have brainwashed the majority into believing that the vaccine is the answer to everything and there are many many arguments against. Blingo still not happy about taking the jab.
Quote from: Sammyffc on April 02, 2021, 07:02:27 PMQuote from: Porthogs FC on March 30, 2021, 01:28:49 PMQuote from: blingo on March 30, 2021, 12:39:48 PMto each their own. I see it like the flu shot, which most of us have received. Additionally, not being vaccinated against the upcoming strain changes is what I wouldn't be excited about. So I will get the poke.
I still maintain that there is no need to vaccinate the entire population for a virus with a 99.7% recovery rate. Governments and the WHO have brainwashed the majority into believing that the vaccine is the answer to everything and there are many many arguments against. Blingo still not happy about taking the jab.
My philiosy is , i will take the jab when i am offered it. I would rather take it than take the risk of complaining in heaven on how life on earth sucked because government control made me not want to protect my life
Quote from: blingo on April 02, 2021, 01:54:46 PM
I understand your pov Mr Plodder, but am not entirely convinced it is solely the vaccine. MOST people recover from covid anyway. It was like a mild cold with my daughter in law 27 but killed my aunty in three days 91. What does not convinced me is that they are vaccinating entire populations for something that in excess of 97% of people infected recover from it, so should we look for herd immunity or inject with something that we can not be sure is 100% safe? J & J have just recalled a massive amount of doses, what if they had got through and had been used? Would people have had side effects or been lulled into a false sense of security believing that they had had a vaccine that worked? All in my view and everyone should do what they think is right.
Quote from: blingo on April 02, 2021, 07:15:04 PMQuote from: Sammyffc on April 02, 2021, 07:02:27 PMQuote from: Porthogs FC on March 30, 2021, 01:28:49 PMQuote from: blingo on March 30, 2021, 12:39:48 PMto each their own. I see it like the flu shot, which most of us have received. Additionally, not being vaccinated against the upcoming strain changes is what I wouldn't be excited about. So I will get the poke.
I still maintain that there is no need to vaccinate the entire population for a virus with a 99.7% recovery rate. Governments and the WHO have brainwashed the majority into believing that the vaccine is the answer to everything and there are many many arguments against. Blingo still not happy about taking the jab.
My philiosy is , i will take the jab when i am offered it. I would rather take it than take the risk of complaining in heaven on how life on earth sucked because government control made me not want to protect my life
If you believe in heaven and hell that is lol.
Quote from: sunburywhite on April 02, 2021, 07:18:13 PMQuote from: blingo on April 02, 2021, 01:54:46 PM
I understand your pov Mr Plodder, but am not entirely convinced it is solely the vaccine. MOST people recover from covid anyway. It was like a mild cold with my daughter in law 27 but killed my aunty in three days 91. What does not convinced me is that they are vaccinating entire populations for something that in excess of 97% of people infected recover from it, so should we look for herd immunity or inject with something that we can not be sure is 100% safe? J & J have just recalled a massive amount of doses, what if they had got through and had been used? Would people have had side effects or been lulled into a false sense of security believing that they had had a vaccine that worked? All in my view and everyone should do what they think is right.
Yeah, they have done so well with denying it in Brazil havent they?
Quote from: blingo on April 02, 2021, 07:15:04 PMQuote from: Sammyffc on April 02, 2021, 07:02:27 PMQuote from: Porthogs FC on March 30, 2021, 01:28:49 PMQuote from: blingo on March 30, 2021, 12:39:48 PMto each their own. I see it like the flu shot, which most of us have received. Additionally, not being vaccinated against the upcoming strain changes is what I wouldn't be excited about. So I will get the poke.
I still maintain that there is no need to vaccinate the entire population for a virus with a 99.7% recovery rate. Governments and the WHO have brainwashed the majority into believing that the vaccine is the answer to everything and there are many many arguments against. Blingo still not happy about taking the jab.
My philiosy is , i will take the jab when i am offered it. I would rather take it than take the risk of complaining in heaven on how life on earth sucked because government control made me not want to protect my life
If you believe in heaven and hell that is lol.
Quote from: JoelH5 on April 02, 2021, 11:58:48 PMQuote from: blingo on April 02, 2021, 07:15:04 PMQuote from: Sammyffc on April 02, 2021, 07:02:27 PMQuote from: Porthogs FC on March 30, 2021, 01:28:49 PMQuote from: blingo on March 30, 2021, 12:39:48 PMto each their own. I see it like the flu shot, which most of us have received. Additionally, not being vaccinated against the upcoming strain changes is what I wouldn't be excited about. So I will get the poke.
I still maintain that there is no need to vaccinate the entire population for a virus with a 99.7% recovery rate. Governments and the WHO have brainwashed the majority into believing that the vaccine is the answer to everything and there are many many arguments against. Blingo still not happy about taking the jab.
My philiosy is , i will take the jab when i am offered it. I would rather take it than take the risk of complaining in heaven on how life on earth sucked because government control made me not want to protect my life
If you believe in heaven and hell that is lol.
You talk about freedom of speech and then laugh when someone says they believe in heaven.
Quote from: blingo on April 03, 2021, 09:39:53 AMQuote from: JoelH5 on April 02, 2021, 11:58:48 PMQuote from: blingo on April 02, 2021, 07:15:04 PMQuote from: Sammyffc on April 02, 2021, 07:02:27 PMQuote from: Porthogs FC on March 30, 2021, 01:28:49 PMQuote from: blingo on March 30, 2021, 12:39:48 PMto each their own. I see it like the flu shot, which most of us have received. Additionally, not being vaccinated against the upcoming strain changes is what I wouldn't be excited about. So I will get the poke.
I still maintain that there is no need to vaccinate the entire population for a virus with a 99.7% recovery rate. Governments and the WHO have brainwashed the majority into believing that the vaccine is the answer to everything and there are many many arguments against. Blingo still not happy about taking the jab.
My philiosy is , i will take the jab when i am offered it. I would rather take it than take the risk of complaining in heaven on how life on earth sucked because government control made me not want to protect my life
If you believe in heaven and hell that is lol.
You talk about freedom of speech and then laugh when someone says they believe in heaven.
Everyone is free to believe in whatever they like Joel. It wasn't offensive it was a simple statement, some do believe and some don't, it's a personal choice.
Quote from: JoelH5 on April 03, 2021, 11:25:57 AMQuote from: blingo on April 03, 2021, 09:39:53 AMQuote from: JoelH5 on April 02, 2021, 11:58:48 PMQuote from: blingo on April 02, 2021, 07:15:04 PMQuote from: Sammyffc on April 02, 2021, 07:02:27 PMQuote from: Porthogs FC on March 30, 2021, 01:28:49 PMQuote from: blingo on March 30, 2021, 12:39:48 PMto each their own. I see it like the flu shot, which most of us have received. Additionally, not being vaccinated against the upcoming strain changes is what I wouldn't be excited about. So I will get the poke.
I still maintain that there is no need to vaccinate the entire population for a virus with a 99.7% recovery rate. Governments and the WHO have brainwashed the majority into believing that the vaccine is the answer to everything and there are many many arguments against. Blingo still not happy about taking the jab.
My philiosy is , i will take the jab when i am offered it. I would rather take it than take the risk of complaining in heaven on how life on earth sucked because government control made me not want to protect my life
If you believe in heaven and hell that is lol.
You talk about freedom of speech and then laugh when someone says they believe in heaven.
Everyone is free to believe in whatever they like Joel. It wasn't offensive it was a simple statement, some do believe and some don't, it's a personal choice.
It was offensive, Blingo, as you laughed at what he believes in. Don't try and backtrack now. Surprising for someone with such strong opinions.
Quote from: JoelH5 on April 03, 2021, 11:25:57 AMQuote from: blingo on April 03, 2021, 09:39:53 AMQuote from: JoelH5 on April 02, 2021, 11:58:48 PMQuote from: blingo on April 02, 2021, 07:15:04 PMQuote from: Sammyffc on April 02, 2021, 07:02:27 PMQuote from: Porthogs FC on March 30, 2021, 01:28:49 PMQuote from: blingo on March 30, 2021, 12:39:48 PMto each their own. I see it like the flu shot, which most of us have received. Additionally, not being vaccinated against the upcoming strain changes is what I wouldn't be excited about. So I will get the poke.
I still maintain that there is no need to vaccinate the entire population for a virus with a 99.7% recovery rate. Governments and the WHO have brainwashed the majority into believing that the vaccine is the answer to everything and there are many many arguments against. Blingo still not happy about taking the jab.
My philiosy is , i will take the jab when i am offered it. I would rather take it than take the risk of complaining in heaven on how life on earth sucked because government control made me not want to protect my life
If you believe in heaven and hell that is lol.
You talk about freedom of speech and then laugh when someone says they believe in heaven.
Everyone is free to believe in whatever they like Joel. It wasn't offensive it was a simple statement, some do believe and some don't, it's a personal choice.
It was offensive, Blingo, as you laughed at what he believes in. Don't try and backtrack now. Surprising for someone with such strong opinions.
Quote from: blingo on April 03, 2021, 11:48:37 AMQuote from: JoelH5 on April 03, 2021, 11:25:57 AMQuote from: blingo on April 03, 2021, 09:39:53 AMQuote from: JoelH5 on April 02, 2021, 11:58:48 PMQuote from: blingo on April 02, 2021, 07:15:04 PMQuote from: Sammyffc on April 02, 2021, 07:02:27 PMQuote from: Porthogs FC on March 30, 2021, 01:28:49 PMQuote from: blingo on March 30, 2021, 12:39:48 PMto each their own. I see it like the flu shot, which most of us have received. Additionally, not being vaccinated against the upcoming strain changes is what I wouldn't be excited about. So I will get the poke.
I still maintain that there is no need to vaccinate the entire population for a virus with a 99.7% recovery rate. Governments and the WHO have brainwashed the majority into believing that the vaccine is the answer to everything and there are many many arguments against. Blingo still not happy about taking the jab.
My philiosy is , i will take the jab when i am offered it. I would rather take it than take the risk of complaining in heaven on how life on earth sucked because government control made me not want to protect my life
If you believe in heaven and hell that is lol.
You talk about freedom of speech and then laugh when someone says they believe in heaven.
Everyone is free to believe in whatever they like Joel. It wasn't offensive it was a simple statement, some do believe and some don't, it's a personal choice.
It was offensive, Blingo, as you laughed at what he believes in. Don't try and backtrack now. Surprising for someone with such strong opinions.
It was NOT offensive Joel, Sammy laughed at it and it was him who it was directed to. So what exactly is it that has got to you? And I never back track my friend.
Quote from: JoelH5 on April 03, 2021, 11:25:57 AMQuote from: blingo on April 03, 2021, 09:39:53 AMQuote from: JoelH5 on April 02, 2021, 11:58:48 PMQuote from: blingo on April 02, 2021, 07:15:04 PMQuote from: Sammyffc on April 02, 2021, 07:02:27 PMQuote from: Porthogs FC on March 30, 2021, 01:28:49 PMQuote from: blingo on March 30, 2021, 12:39:48 PMto each their own. I see it like the flu shot, which most of us have received. Additionally, not being vaccinated against the upcoming strain changes is what I wouldn't be excited about. So I will get the poke.
I still maintain that there is no need to vaccinate the entire population for a virus with a 99.7% recovery rate. Governments and the WHO have brainwashed the majority into believing that the vaccine is the answer to everything and there are many many arguments against. Blingo still not happy about taking the jab.
My philiosy is , i will take the jab when i am offered it. I would rather take it than take the risk of complaining in heaven on how life on earth sucked because government control made me not want to protect my life
If you believe in heaven and hell that is lol.
You talk about freedom of speech and then laugh when someone says they believe in heaven.
Everyone is free to believe in whatever they like Joel. It wasn't offensive it was a simple statement, some do believe and some don't, it's a personal choice.
It was offensive, Blingo, as you laughed at what he believes in. Don't try and backtrack now. Surprising for someone with such strong opinions.